Big Blue Huddle

It depends on the options available in the off-season. If the options are Daniels, Fields, and Jones, I'd rank them like this:
1. Draft Jayden Daniels with the first round pick.
2. Trade a mid-round pick for Justin Fields.
3. Roll with Daniel Jones and plan for another double digit loss season and another top-10 pick the following year.

One of the issues with Fields is there is only one year left on his rookie deal. They'd have to make an immediate decision on the 5th year option, which I assume they'd decline. If he played well in 2024, they'd be stuck in a similar situation as they were with Daniel Jones, a QB you can't trust entering free agency.

There are very intelligent and accomplished people on this board who have to watch a game multiple times in order to have a good understanding of what happened. Even veteran head coaches often say they need to go back to watch the tape before they can comment on individual plays. It's not that every one of them is lacking in intelligence. It's that there is an enormous amount of information to consume and presumably infinite ways to interpret that information.

Imagine the pressure of lining up at QB in a stadium in front of thousands, with millions more watching on TV. You know that everything you do will end up being parsed and studied and picked apart. The pressure is always there. Then within a matter of seconds you have to read a defense that was designed to fool you, identify potential blitzers, shift protection if needed, identify coverage, look for gaps or weaknesses, adjust the play if needed, look for anyone who is cheating in any direction while considering down, distance, score, tendencies from film, experience gained from all previous plays so far, and any other relevant factors, and do it all in a way that the 10 men around you truly believe you are worthy of following.

If you're really good you might consider the personnel you're going up against. Is the free safety hiding a sore ankle? Is the middle linebacker easily fooled by the play fake? How far back do I anticipate the All Pro nose guard pushing my journey man center in the first 2 seconds?

You have to do this when your coach has been screaming in your ear, and when three different people have just given you advice on what the defense is doing. And you understand that the 11 players across from you are motivated to hurt you and humiliate you.

This is somewhat different than the intelligence needed to sit at a desk and write a complicated algorithm with a mid-day Thursday deadline. Do people here really understand how difficult the QB position is? It's not a test of academic intelligence?

Quote from: katkavage on November 30, 2023, 09:28:17 AMWhat? Duke? Smarts? Come on. I hope you know better than that, MG. No one is doubting DJ's intelligence. And what school you went to has nothing to do with your football intelligence. Since he has been in the league, Jones has not displayed the instincts and decision-making, no matter how brilliant a mind he has, that elite or even franchise QBs possess. Duke, Harvard, Stanford can't teach what Hurts or Mahomes or so many others know instinctively.

Exactly. There is a reason the Air Force isn't just recruiting a bunch of Harvard Law School graduates to pilot their fighter jets. It's a completely different type of intelligence needed combined with a physical skill set and mental disposition that very few people have. You wouldn't say, "this kid wrote an amazing thesis paper, so he should be an amazing pilot."

Even pre-snap, there is a unique psychology needed to make split second assessments and adjustments. It has nothing to do with your classroom academics.

Quote from: Philosophers on November 29, 2023, 10:16:22 PMEvery metric can be parsed.  Also, a fan can't tell if say a missed block on a blitzing LB was the result of a QB not calling the right blocking assignment or an OL player simply not making the block.

You are also drawing a conclusion in which other conclusions can be drawn.  For example, you are saying the OL has looked better under Taylor and saying he has better processing speed, but the OL can look better because OL players are healthier, OL players are learning now how to play better and communicate better amongst themselves, Kafka is calling a play that is more advantageous to the offense or that Taylor is processing the play better than DJ.

I am not saying DJ has good or bad processing speed.  I don't know but I also think no fan knows.

It could also be magical elves conspiring against Daniel Jones. We can't say for sure. No one knows. Perhaps in 4-5 more years we'll have enough information to properly evaluate Jones. 

Quote from: GeauxJints on November 29, 2023, 09:12:33 PMTyrod had the same line and Devito's line not much different. DJ doesn't know how to audible for protection.

Yes. In his fifth season Daniel Jones still plays like a rookie. Not sure why it's so difficult for others here to see.

Quote from: katkavage on November 29, 2023, 03:43:00 PMI wait until the next coach and GM are hired after another few years of bad football.

I was going to say "immediately fire the HC and GM for believing in fairytales."

Unfortunately we can't fire John Mara. 

Quote from: kingm56 on November 28, 2023, 10:24:17 PMIt's comforting to know the Giants are just an OL coach from being competitive.  There's not a single example of OL coach transforming a bottom 5 OL, without the infusion of significant talent.  The Giants have had very good OL coaches, and still fielded terrible units, most notably 2013 thru 2015. The Giants need talent at G and RT and hope thier OC gains strength.  Fundamentally, there's a shortage of OL talent as a byproduct of HS and colleges switching to spread offenses.  So, finding solid guards is difficult in the modern NFL...

King, you probably know this as well as anyone here. For at least the last 10+ years, folks here have been scapegoating the coaching. Remember when it was Gilbride's fault, even though he was screaming about the OL being a problem? Then it was Caughlin's fault because he should've developed Jerry's players? A certain part of the fan base couldn't admit the problem was lack of talent. They still can't.

Quote from: Bob In PA on November 28, 2023, 09:26:02 PMAZR: One more... guards are not worth spending a high 1st-rounder. Exceptions are extremely rare. Bob

Sounds like he's making a two part argument:

1) don't draft a QB because the OL isn't good enough

2) don't draft OL because the OL is good enough with better coaching.

Do you see the problem with the logic listed above? If you bring in better coaching for the OL, why not draft a better QB and go to war with Barkley and Hyatt?

To Bob and anyone else who may think it's the wrong time to draft a QB:

There's never going to be a time when you have all of the players you need (OL, WR, RB) and can then go shopping for a QB. It doesn't work like that in the real world. A lot of the players you think will be good won't work out. Some of the players you think are working out will get hurt. There's never going to be a perfect time to draft a QB.

On top of that, you don't really know when you'll have an opportunity to get one. When the opportunity presents itself you have to take it regardless of what the rest of the roster looks like.

Yes, luck is part of the equation. You're going to have to hope your skill and preparation meet at the right opportunity to get lucky.

No one said building a great team would be easy. The problem the Giants face right now is trapping themselves in QB hell by lying to themselves about the quality of their players, especially the QB. Cut your losses and move on. Give the next generation of players a chance to succeed where this group of core players failed.

Daniel Jones and the players around him have failed many times over. Although the team is stuck with him on the roster for one more year, we should all be clear eyed in understanding that he isn't the answer and neither are Tyrod Taylor nor DeVito.

This organization needs a major infusion of talent at the QB position. If this year's draft gives us an opportunity to get a guy, then great, we have a shot. If it doesn't, then we're stuck in QB hell for at least another year.

Have you seen the list of all the OL, WR, and pass rushers who are busts? Evan Neal, for example, was widely regarded as a can't miss player. Not only has he been terrible his first two years, but he's also gotten injured several times.

As far as a rookie sitting behind Daniel Jones due to Jones' salary, that is highly doubtful. Jones sat behind Eli for what? Two games? That was despite Eli being one of the highest paid players in the league, nevermind that Eli's resume dwarfs Jones'.

Bottom line, there is no guarantee the Giants will be in a position to draft a franchise QB but if they do, Jones' career as the Giants starter is effectively over.

Quote from: Jaime on November 26, 2023, 10:05:17 PMWhere there is smoke, there is usually fire

Jaime, if this report is true, it isn't going away based on a game ball.

https://twitter.com/PLeonardNYDN/status/1728828714975134080?t=kWYdJaeLI0dDPx0VJU6rWQ&s=19

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 25, 2023, 09:09:25 AMHere's a disconnect

When DJ had Toney and Ritchie James as his WRs they blamed Jones and said he should make those around them better

When Mahomes has Toney and Ritchie James as WRs 3 and 4, they say Mahomes can't be expected to perform well with such poor receivers

The disconnect is Pat Mahomes went into this week 6th in passing yards and 6th in passing TDs. Daniel Jones doesn't exist in the same universe.

Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 24, 2023, 07:47:59 PMThere were actually Giants fans saying they'd take take Jones over Dak before the season. The Giant Insider guys may have even side. Talk about living in a different reality.

I remember that. There are plenty of delusional Giants fans. But I think a lot of the delusion has to do with John Mara tacitly giving marching orders to media and influencers that they were expected to promote Jones as some sort of exceptional talent. There was even a mini-campaign last year to rehabilitate the reputation of Dave Gettleman. None of those so called journalists has issued a mea culpa that I'm aware of.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on November 24, 2023, 07:45:55 PMYou should say "I", not "We"...sure there's a few on this board who despise DJ, and there's also a whole lot of supporters of DJ as well (especially the players and the organization). But I don't speak for all of his supporters, just myself

I'm fine saying we. There are plenty of Giants fans "we" who put the team ahead of individual players. Jones had his chance and he didn't get it done. That's life in the NFL.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on November 24, 2023, 01:10:59 PMLet's not forget that Devito shined against the Commanders, not a good team. And even though the Commanders traded away Chase Young and Montez Sweat, they still blew through our offensive line for 9 sacks and 11 QB hits. And the Commanders' with Sam (turnover) Howell at the helm, allowed the Giants' defense to take the game away

I'm not knocking Devito, just saying that we won because of a crap load of turnovers and in spite of an offensive line that couldn't stop my 92-year-old mother (who uses a walker, BTW) from getting to the QB. I like Devito, but I'm also a huge SU fan and watched him play for years...and all I can say, is that his play last Sunday was an aberration from his college days (I hope it continues, but it's hard to forget what I watched in Syracuse). I say, "good for him...he's got some game to him", but our problem is not DJ, who seems to be the favorite target of frustrated fans' wrath along with big mouth pundits who need to stay on the bandwagon they started when he was drafted. Meanwhile, the coaches, GM, and every single one of the Giants' players have 100% faith in DJ and believe in him as a future winner. Fans think that if we only had Justin Herbert, he would/could carry this team on his back regardless of the players around him. This is a team sport, and it takes the whole team. It's not the PGA or pro-tennis

Our problems go much deeper than QB...even though it's true that QB is a problem with us having to rely on a third string undrafted rookie. Just don't think that Devito is the second coming of Brady, and don't get your hopes up when he plays against teams like the Eagles. Must keep in mind that this win was against a very poor Commanders' team

And another thing - QB hell (IMHO) is also a team with a QB who folds like a cheap suit in the most important games and is unable to rise to the occasion at the end of the season (know what I'm saying Dak?)

I don't think any reasonable person wants DeVito as QB1 on this team. We just don't want Jones either.

I don't disagree with your point about Dak. I wouldn't describe the situation in Dallas as QB hell but I wouldn't be confident with him as my starting QB going into the playoffs either.