Big Blue Huddle

I agree GG. The boss is the boss, right or wrong. You can have your say. You can have your principles. You can ultimately vote with your feet if you cannot find middle ground. Providing you do so privately and professionally.

I get that sports are 'emotional' but in any senior leadership position in any aspect of life if you cannot manage your own emotions you cannot manage anything or anyone. You will always be a passenger, even a prisoner, of your own impulses and moods.

The jury is still out on whether Daboll can grow into a true leader becoming more than just 'talented' but erratic. I think the verdict is now in that Wink never will.

Daboll's on an increasingly hot seat but we have to break our cycle of two and done HC so he gets year 3 to show growth on and off the field.

As for OL coach or coordinators I have no doubt Mara/Tisch will pay what is needed if we have a shot at an in-demand candidate. I have more doubts about whether or not we are an attractive proposition to top candidates.

We all know the Giants are old school in certain business and people aspects so the lower than top end salaries my cousin reports (decent benefits, working environment) in entry level and lower positions is really part and parcel of that 'work your way up' and 'earn your stripes' mentality. As with most things in life there are pros and cons.

He's arguably the hottest young OL coach in the league and he is under contract. Any new HC in Atlanta will be told that Ledford is staying and if they have a brain they really should be delighted to hear it.

My fear is enough people inside and outside our building across the league will see it as Mike does making it a bigger shadow over Daboll than Wink.

These are the opinions that matter not ours as they will determine the motivation of those already here and influence the quality of players and coaches we can attract.

I personally do not give a stuff how it plays out for Wink as he is now history but how it plays out for Daboll really matters for our future.

Neither the owners nor Schoen can be pleased with how this mess blew up so publicly, potentially complicating matters moving forward. It is bad management and they will need to think about if and how they could have helped avoid it just as much as Daboll will need to do some soul-searching.

This is not a total shock but it certainly surprised me. I wonder if Seattle has a back door nod from eg Harbaugh or Vrabel...

Common sense finally. I suspect Mara and Schoen had a chat and the grown-ups, including Wink's agent, got involved. Now Daboll has to find new coaches with a bit of a smell around him and Wink has to find a new job with a bit of a smell around him. Nobody won here but our rivals and they did not need the leg up.

Shep has played hard, played hurt and played with heart across his career with us. He has been a good and loyal servant. He is not a legend but he deserves more respect than some are showing him. I wish him only the best in the future.

He is a good candidate but there are a lot of strong GM candidates this year, many from winning organisations or with some connections with one or more needy franchise.

If he emerges from the crowded field to land a role we will get a third round comp pick in both 24 and 25 and, if Schoen is smart, he will repeat the trick finding a similarly smart, young, hungry & highly rated minority* candidate from a well run franchise to headhunt and groom.

* this does not stop us simultaneously hiring/developing similarly rated non-minority candidates but smart organisations always look to exploit whatever opportunity the rules create.

My take is this team has more (and younger) adequate/league average starters and back-ups than two years ago but still has insufficient high end playmakers on both sides of the ball to consistently compete with good teams.

I even think there is more to work with on our OL than 85 sacks/trash run game suggests as the combination of poor coaching, low confidence, hugely disruptive widespread injuries and resultant zero continuity created a snowball effect.

None of this means I think we are poised for glory or just a QB away from contending but I do think league average QB/OL play and a couple more game-impacting playmakers (from draft, FA or player development) could return us to the playoffs.

So, no IMO we are not necessarily destined be THAT bad next season if THAT is defined by our record & draft position (which is as Parcells would say the unarguable fact of who we showed ourselves to be this season!).

FWIW cuz works for an AFC franchise nearby. Giants are generally held to be willing to pay above NFL average for top coaches (coordinators & key assistants) but are notoriously skinflint with more junior coaching assistants, scouts and analysts. Salary won't be an issue hiring a new DC, STC or OL guy but our perceived dysfunction, NJ taxes and the perennials of climate, lifestyle for family etc. will be as always.

As normal the FA OT group is less than stellar. Good OT do not hit the market unless ancient/injured. We might pick up a G on a Glowinski style risk/reward deal and almost certainly we will draft at least one OL day 2 or 3.

Day 1 draft I think BPA at 6 or slight trade back will be WR or Bowers. I do not see us having the ammunition to easily trade up. So far Schoen has been controlled aggression with small trades rather than a swing for the fences guy but maybe he will feel circumstances demand a bigger risk.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 09, 2024, 10:41:18 AMHere is my concern.  We assume the actions happened in the order we learned about them.  I am not sure that is a correct assumption.  It's possible Wink quit; THEN the Giants fired his right-hand man and his brother.

Wink still has not actually quit so I think the better assumption is Daboll knew he was firing Wink's most trusted lieutenant whilst saying totally disingenuously that he expected him back.

Wink's 24hrs play sheet clearly shows he thought the end was nigh and was working to that end.

For me neither has recently been thinking or acting team first, it has all been 'me' as they have clearly each tried to use the media to score points and spin sentiment.

Call me old-school or British stick-in-the-mud but I think it is no way for adult professionals to behave. No organisation can thrive with thin-skinned, ego-focused man-children in charge.

For me I have lost a lot of respect for both of them. Obviously my opinion does not matter a damn but it worries me that some in the locker room might see it the same way.

I think the obviously mendacious way the presser yesterday was handled by Daboll (you cannot expect Wink back knowing you are about to fire his guys) will upset our owners more than those beyond the building.

I do think the smell around Daboll as a people manager will be a factor for coaches with other options but where it will rank vs general health of franchise, NJ taxes and other potential deterrents depends on the individual. Some people place a high premium on interpersonal fit, others have more measurable priorities.

In summary, Daboll has been a disappointment year two with both coaching and his apparent people management issues raising concerns moving forwards.

Schoen needs to be in his ear and getting him the support, advice and training he needs to improve his leadership skills. Daboll has to be humble enough to learn.

If Daboll carries on as he has this year he will be destined to be another smart former coordinator who could not carry the burden of the big hat.

Both are UFAs. Neither would be priority resigning decisions. The future new STC may or may not want one or both back.