Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Gman329 on December 28, 2022, 02:27:15 PMOne, the production will continue to increase and two, as I ask above, what are the alternatives?  I sure as hell don't want to start over with a rookie project out of the draft.  So for those who want to move on from DJ, who do you see or want as the Giant QB next year?

Why would you not want to draft a QB? Should the Giants forever roll with DJ and when his career is over, only acquire QBs via trades and free agency?

So, the reason for DJs INT was because he is "not fast"

Do you want a faster WR to run further away from it, making it look more underthrown? It was a bad throw through and through.

There are plenty of good WRs in the league, 1s and 2s, that aren't blazing fast.

 

Quote from: Rambo89 on December 28, 2022, 05:43:14 AMThis might be the weakest defense for an interception that I've ever read.

Quote from: AP44 on December 27, 2022, 06:00:15 PMWas off chemo for 6 weeks. Didn't get good news on my last scans so the doctor put me back on it. Been a struggle but meaningful Giants football and discussion is a plus. But overall the tumors are smaller than when first diagnosed so I am still on the good side. The cold weather - let me tell - it f'n blows though lol.

Hope you get better soon AP

Quote from: GMenRF on December 27, 2022, 05:40:13 PMYet you ignore the WR group and TE.  Plus the fact that Cousins had the luxury to learn the system for 3 years before becoming the full time starter.

That's stability and structure that Jones does not have the luxury of.  He is in year 1 of a completely new system and philosophy.  Like what Banks said in the video posted earlier.  The team just do not have the luxury having solid pass blocking to take multiple shots down the field.

To everyone saying we don't have talent at RB, WR, and TE, what are you all basing that on? It's not PFF grades, it's not stats, so what is it?

We have a 1250yd 10TD pro bowler at RB, many here claim Bellinger is a very good find in the draft (I agree) who has played well, at Tight End, Slayton is posting WR2 numbers, him and Hodgins are both outplaying many of the WRs people wanted them to trade for, their PFF grades are also higher than many of the receivers, they are graded amongst the top half of the league. Hodgins in recent weeks has been a TD magnet.

So again, if we have no talent or weapons, what is that being based on? Because it seems to me we have several along with an Elite LT

Quote from: AP44 on December 27, 2022, 04:10:44 PMMahomes is gonna go down as one of the greatest ever. There's nothing wrong with saying he makes others around him better.

Tannehill is and always been an average QB who plays in a run first system.

Burrow had 8 TDs and 3 INTs without Chase in 4 games. Very small sample size. In those 4 games - he had a monster game (against Pitt with 4 TDs)- the other 3 were average games for him.

If you want to see what Hopkins meant for Murray - go check out what Arizona did with and without him last year. This year was a wasted year with Murray being banged up and Hopkins missing the first 6 games.

Mahomes is a GOAT potentially, but losing Hill should have still made life harder, it hasn't, as great as he is, he is unquestionably playing better without him, He still has Kelce, but he was there with Hill every year.

Wouldn't Tannehill being average and in a run oriented attack, further highlight the importance of a #1 WR, why hasn't he regressed being average without AJ Brown?  An average QB would surely play worse without a pro bowl #1 WR right? Why is Henry still playing well despite no WR to draw doubles and/or keep defenses honest? That's one less guy to stop after trading him away.

You can't say Burrow was a sample size, then used a portion of Herberts season as an argument point. They both went a portion of the season without their top guy(s). Burrow also missed Mixon for a couple of games too.

The point on Hopkins and Murray still does not explain why Murrays absence has clearly been felt since his injury, they have been horrible without him.

Quote from: AP44 on December 27, 2022, 03:31:53 PMAllen took a giant leap when he got Diggs.
Murray's best games were with Hopkins.
Tua is much better with Hill.
Herbert's numbers took a major dip without Allen and Williams.
How's Aaron Rodgers doing without Adams?

Again... works both ways.

Ok, yes it works both ways, but you continue to say that. How would you explain Mahomes, Tannehill, Burrow, etc are all still playing equally well or better when playing without their top, elite, #1 WRs? Why aren't their numbers plummeting?

Why is a guy like Carr, despite getting Davante Adams, not playing much better? Getting a #1 WR is supposed to take you over the top as you have implied.

It seems that having these elite weapons is not as impactful as you make it out to be, seeing as some have worked out, where others have not, seems to be a pretty even mix of the two.

In reference to some of the examples you gave Rodgers has won 5 straight with Watsons lightbulb turning on a bit. They've entered the wildcard discussion. Also, how is Hopkins and the AZ doing without Murray? Herbert, despite missing Allen for half the season, and Williams for a few games, still posted a winning record of 5-4, close to .500, but still above it, and they will be playing in the playoffs thanks to it.

I will give you Allen and to a lesser extent Tua, they did play a lot better with the #1s added. Tua has still been wildly inconsistent, but better nonetheless. I view him as the same tier as Jones.

Quote from: AP44 on December 27, 2022, 01:57:59 PMDoes anyone else find "this backup QB" can be just as good as Jones based off one meaningless game against a bad team.

I mean there is a poster who is posting on this thread who has spoke many times on this board and another board about how much better Nick Foles is than Daniel Jones. I mean - come on people - let's do better.

Now we are all over Baker Mayfield - who's on his third team this year and the team that cut him mid season is much much better without him.

Nick Foles beat Tom Brady in a Super Bowl. He isn't special, very inconsistent, hasn't had a "good year" since 2013, but that is no minor feat and should not be overlooked.

Also I did CTRL + F for Foles in the last 5 pages, and I do not see any mentions of him in this thread? Also not sure what blaming people here for what someone on another forum said is supposed to accomplish?

Quote from: brownelvis54 on December 27, 2022, 09:56:03 AMReally? Really? Those QBs you speak of...do they also have WRs that are at the level we have? I was listening to the announcers on the Dolphin game and they were saying how Hill and Waddle were making Tua better. There was a time in the game Waddle had two catches for 96 yards and Hill three catches for 84 yards. The majority of the yards for both WR were YAC yards. As of now Waddle leads the NFL with an average of 18 yards after the catch

This response seems to be all over the place, how did we go from OL play to Tuas WRs getting YAC yards

I don't think Tua is that much better than Jones myself, a marginal upgrade, but anyways, we have two WRs in the top 30ish range on PFF, which is good for top half of the league. They have capable receivers, a solid TE and a pro bowl RB, and elite LT, that is some pretty solid talent to work with. As for the other QBs, some of them might have had better WRs, but they got knocked on their rears often, moreso than Jones has, always facing constant pressure, but they made it work. Most did not have a RB of Barkleys caliber which also helps even it out.

At some point, the QB has to be the reason. He played very well this week, I'm still not convinced long term, but I credit him for a solid performance. He still has not showed many franchise qualities or done anything indicating he should be built aroudn as such

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 27, 2022, 09:24:39 AMThere are always excuses for the OL.  At what point do they go away?

No one is making excuses for the OL, I don't think anyone has claimed it is anything above average besides Thomas.

It is his best overall OL, but that also is not saying much of anything. But plenty of QBs have played well with equal or worse.

He had a good game this week. Credit is given. If he can play like this more consistently, I'd be on board bringing him back as a bridge for a year or two but not a long term thing.

After 4 years, with some of the same WRs that he should have chemistry with, and the best OL he has had, I would expect games like this a bit more often.

At the end of the day we are 20th in the league in points per game at 20.7, and have never been more than 18th with him which was in his rookie year. We should be at least in the top 9-12 range at minimum if we want to compete. All the stats and metrics supporting both sides of the argument (to keep or not to keep) are nice, but at the end of the day we need to put points on the board consistently.

But who knows, maybe another year of building the roster along with a new turf and players returning on both sides of the ball get us there.

As much as we see Mahomes, Brady, and other franchise guys win each year, we occasionally get a Flacco, Foles, or Dilfer that sneak one in on occasion, could DJ be that? I'm not sure, I don't think so. But maybe Daboll believes he can get more out of him. I don't see it but if he resigns here I hope they do. After 4 years he just has too many things to work on in my opinion. At some point you simply are what you are.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 24, 2022, 05:55:48 PMI don't read the game threads anymore. 

Then maybe don't jump to conclusions on what is said or not said. Several of us gave the guy some credit. Even if we have critiques on some parts of the game we still acknowledged his play today was pretty good. If that ruffles any feathers then it's just nitpicking or ignorance.

Quote from: todge on December 24, 2022, 05:02:07 PMWell ... when you don't like a certain player - no matter what he does is perceived in a negative light. There are several guys here who will always focus on the negative. You just have to accept their obvious bias.

After Jones is signed to an extension, the negativity will continue. Jones had a great game today - yet the naysayers will point to the  one pick (as if other QBs don't throw picks) . They will also point out every missed pass (as if other QBs don't throw errant passes).

It is what it is and it's never going to change.


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He had one of his better games today. That last drive he didn't do a whole lot but he played an ok game overall. Slaytons YAC and Barkley were the biggest factors on the scoring drive. I'll credit DJ for the 2pt though be bought enough time with his legs on that one, and ultimately made the throw. A little high but the result was all that mattered

Quote from: kingm56 on December 23, 2022, 08:27:02 PMI agree. Debate is actually healthy...

+1 Agreed

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 05:22:56 PMWhy are you objecting to Blue Fire's opinion?

How am I objecting? If you actually read before jumping at people's throats, you would see I'm not claiming one side is wrong, but simply no one from either side, including myself know a thing. We can all throw around whatever random numbers and statistics out of our asses that we want, fact is none of us know nothing, and none of us will know anything until the powers that be make the decisions on this teams personel. 

Quote from: Blue Fire on December 23, 2022, 03:18:31 PMBelieve what you will. I am placing DJs return at like 80-85% (barring some unforeseen circumstance as mentioned above)

And quite frankly no one cares, it is all BS!!!!!!! You do not know any better than we do. Regardless of what we think or don't think, regardless of what we agree on or disagree on. WE. ALL. KNOW. NOTHING.

It is either 0% or 100%, only Joe and Dabs know which it is, and we will find out soon enough.