Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on December 23, 2022, 03:00:52 PMPersonally, I find it astonishing, outrageous even, that a group of people who have zero NFL experience, either as a coach, executive, scout, or player, and (barring perhaps one or two exceptions) have never played serious college football even, think they are more knowledgeable about this sport or a specific player than a Hall of Fame TE who won three Super Bowls, was a first team all pro four times, and spent a number of years practicing and playing with one of the ten greatest QBs ever to play this game (John Elway).

For some random dude sitting at home or at work in front of his computer who has never sniffed an NFL paycheck to refer to Shannon Sharpe as a "shock-jock", and for others here to deny that he's an expert on this sport (or imply as much), simply because what he had to say doesn't happen to suit their agendas, shows how far some are willing to go to defend their views and besmirch others whom they have absolutely no business doing that to and look ridiculous while doing it.

It is especially hard to fathom considering a lot of these same people post random tweets and articles written by some random nobody with zero professional football credentials just because the content is attempting to pump a certain player up that they want to see pumped up.

Pretty wild and crazy stuff if you ask me. But hey, the truth is that nothing really surprises me that much anymore these days.

This! Well said DB

Although I would not label him as an "expert", I would like to think someone who is aware of things going on league wide, with a resume like his as a player and on screen analyst (or whatever his position is called now), and who has many great personal connections and friendships with many players, coaches, and people in the league, both past AND PRESENT, would have more credibility than random reporters chasing clicks, views, and subscriptions.

This has no connection to the post I shared, that was what it is, a quote. But I damn sure take those type of people over some of the sources used here to try to "prove people wrong", expert or not.

Especially when something shared and expressed as fact, clearly shows an opinion. Posts starting with "to me" and ending in "idk" is not a fact, it is lame attempt to stir up controversy.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 11:51:45 AMDidn't you just tell me you posted a Shannon Sharp tweet not because you think he is an expert whose opinions you value, but because his views matched your own?

Ok? It's a quote I copied because I also think DJ is just a guy essentially. Was it coupled with me trying to changes ones view? No, it was a mere quote nothing more or less. Not sure what the point you are trying to make is with this one

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 23, 2022, 11:21:33 AMThere is only one opinion that matters!

That's the Giants specifically JS!

Everyone else is just flapping gums including us.

Everyone has a right to their opinion!  It's when people think their opinions actually matter more then others that there is an issue.

Amen!   

Quote from: AZGiantFan on December 23, 2022, 11:06:28 AMI'm not sure whether citing Shannon Sharpe helps or hurts your case, LOL.

I'm not trying to help or hurt anything, he made a comment, I agree hes just a guy, that's where it ends lol

If anyone thinks otherwise that is perfectly fine.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 10:28:59 AMTBF,

I think the issue is more of your strong desire to prove yourself right. You guys seem so driven by that, that your views of what happens are greatly skewed.  That strong desire has created situations where you do exactly what you admit to, posting things that agree with your opinion.  That sort of approach rarely leads to good or correct outcomes.

There is a perfect example on this thread.  The two Youtube videos were posted and were created by random dudes.  One was pro-Jones and called out haters, and the other was anti-Jones and called his supporters a cult (or something similar).  The pro-Jones video was ignored by all of you guys, you couldn't be bothered.  The anti-Jones video got all sorts of love and support from the Jones critics.  Objectively, the two videos were identical in terms of the quality and expertise of the source material.  Yet it wasn't hard to see how differently the critics viewed the material.  You will notice I did not like the Pro-Jones video because it failed my criteria for quality material.

That is hardly an isolated issue.  Because you guys are so driven, there are often flawed approaches to trying to prove your correctness.  Can you really blame me for pointing out obvious flaws?

That all said, I don't think my statements should be applied as blanket statements toward or describing those critical of Daniel Jones.  I am posting a thread by Ed Vette.  He has made it clear, over the last couple of seasons that he isn't a Jones supporter.  Yet, he clearly is open-minded and willing to adjust his views as more is learned.  This post of his is one of the best I have seen (especially on this topic) in quite some time


Now consider your reaction to my post about what the beat writers are saying.  Instead of acknowledging the access they have to the team (which allows for better insights), you talked about how beat writers don't decide who stays or goes.  From my vantage point, that does not sound like you are willing to entertain information that doesn't fit your existing point of view.

Here's the thing, in a few months' time, we will all learn if Jones is staying or going.  Regardless of the outcome, I will neither be right nor wrong.  For me, it will mean the biggest piece of the puzzle has been revealed (what Schoen and Dabble feel about Jones), and that's all that matters.  I will support whatever decision is made because, at this point I have no reason not to trust the judgment of both men (appreciating they know more than we do both about football and the situation).

If Jones stays I will be happy because I support the players on the team, and if Jones is the answer it means a quicker path to relevance.  If Jones goes I will be fine because clearly Daboll and Schoen don't see him as the answer and it's better to pull that bandaid off fast.  Nothing to be gained from keeping a guy around you don't think will help you achieve the success you seek.

Heck, they could keep him short-term just because they don't see a path to a proper upgrade this offseason, but long term they do intend to replace him.  No matter the path I am fine with it and I will neither be right nor will I be wrong.  I will simply be a fan hoping for the best

We aren't as determined to be as right as you think. There is a difference between sharing one's opinions, and trying to change peoples minds and telling them they are wrong. At the end of the day perception is reality.

I don't try to make anyone pro Jones anti Jones. If someone thinks another way that's fine. Many times I have tried tontell others we agree to disagree. I just try to talk about it, that's what forums are for, to discuss things.

Sure there are some debates, but I don't try to stir up controversy for the sake of website clicks or more star votes and likes on a topic I might post.

You on the other hand have very bluntly called others wrong for having an opinion different to you or Nick Felato and co. If you want to debate or challenge something, that is all fine and well. You clearly have made claims in previous topics that what you think is a fact. So, I do not think there is any way you can claim you do not desire to be right. If you think otherwise to each their own.

I can care less if I am right or wrong, I do not have to like Jones because the all 22 film or lack of interceptions on 2 yard throws say hes having a great year. If they resign Jones or not, I'm gonna root for my team and hope they win regardless of who plays. I'm not a GM, what I think means diddly, I never once claimed to be an expert. I have a fan's opinion, when we see what JS and BD really think, I'm just gonna trust them and hope they're right. I'm a Giants fan first and foremost.

Sure, I may engage in a debate or argument, and explain my thoughts or stance. That doesn't mean I have a desire to be right. At the end of the day like skmeone else said, anyone with an opinion is biased. I just don't try to change minds or claim to have facts. All I have is an opinion and I am happy to discuss or explain why. But, any stats, links or thoughts I share, I can confidently say that I stick by them always, not just when it is convenient for whatever point I am trying to make in a given topic.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 09:29:34 AMTo answer your question.  I strive to post quality content.  I try to find sources that I consider experts.  I strive to post things from both sides of quality content can be found on both sides.  I have posted many things negative about Jones over his years with the Giants.  Although lately, finding quality content that is negative about Jones is a pretty challenging task.  So to answer the subtext of your question, I don't curate the material I post based on how it aligns with my views and opinions.

Of course, another reason that my views tend to match what I post is I tend to listen to expert opinions.  I consider their arguments and points; I consider the soundness of their arguments as well as their credentials.  If that all checks out, I will often adopt those points of view.

Maybe it's just me, but my goal isn't to be right; it's to get it right (as the former Giants scout Greg Gabriel likes to say).   

 

Definitely just you, because it sure seems you are gung ho on trying to prove anyone not in favor of Jones to be wrong. Or was I imagining the thread where you literally said we were all wrong for disagreeing with the posts you shared, or every other post after trying to prove us wrong or change our minds? If I dreamt all that I apologize

I am sure you would say we do the same, although that is not true at all. We just want someone that can take us to the next level, yet the picture gets painted like we think hes a mobile Jamarcus Russel or something. No one has said he is terrible, but that is what people want to think or assume, which we all know what happens when one does that.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on December 23, 2022, 08:59:22 AMExactly!

500 posts and pages of debate here also have ZERO influence on what happens.

JS and Dabs will make the call and then 1/2 will bitch and 1/2 will gloat

This 100%, if DJ stays, I won't like it, but I will hope for the best, and hope I am wrong. In that scenario hopefully it isn't a contract that screws them for many years like what Denver is dealing with.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 08:47:42 AMI have noticed a major change in the beat writers' views on DJ.   For most of the season, they have pretty much been on the fence or really not dove into the whole does DJ stay or go debate.  Yet the last couple of weeks, I have been noticing a change.  Many of them are not publishing stories suggesting Jones will likely be back or has won the right to be back.   Here is a sample of the articles I am seeing


How Daniel Jones is winning over the Giants ... and earning a chance to stay
At the beginning of the year it seemed unlikely Jones would get the chance to stay beyond this year ... now, it seems unlikely the Giants will choose to move on

By Ed Valentine

https://www.bigblueview.com/2022/12/23/23522332/how-daniel-jones-is-winning-over-the-giants-and-earning-a-chance-to-stay

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks or doesn't thinks.

These beat writers have zero influence if he stays or goes. JS & Dabs will decide that, the reports both for and against, are in no place to determine how likely something is to happen. The ones that are, will make that call, within the next couple of months. They don't care what side of it we are all on, they are on the side they are and will act accordingly. Some of us will like it, some of us won't, we will see what is what soon enough.

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 23, 2022, 08:44:24 AMI am curious, did you post this because you consider Shannon Sharpe an expert on football and you respect his views and opinions or did you post it because his opinions match your own?

I don't view him as an expert on things, he is more entertaining to me than anything.

Sure, it summarizes my views on him in a short sentence rather than the constant back and forth. Do you not also post things that align with your views and opinions as well?

I think JAG perfectly describes what Daniel is, not good, not bad, just somewhere in the middle, you can do better, and you can also do worse. He can maybe keep a ship from sinking, but he isn't gonna steer it to the promised land either.

https://twitter.com/ShannonSharpe/status/1595928496496574464

Quote from: kingm56 on December 22, 2022, 10:07:23 AMI agree, Rambo! When DJ starting days are over in a decade, he'll make a great backup too.

I also agree, especially with the uncertainty of the ACL injury

Murray is more dynamic on the ground as well. But he has some challenges with his size too

With that said I wouldn't pay him either. One advantage DJ there is Kyler is a diva and headache.

Kyler is a better player. But neither are a guy I would pay big money. Saying DJ is a better leader and tougher isnt saying much when compared to a whiny crybaby like Murray.

His ACL may bring down his explosiveness too, which will impact his game pretty bad potentially.

What I will say, is as much as I don't like Murray, if over the same span, DJs stats looked more like Kylers, I would be much more in favor of keeping him around.

Shouldn't this be moved to the Daniel Jones thread?

Quote from: AP44 on December 21, 2022, 02:04:00 PMNothing wrong with this opinion. But if people are going to show why Jones should go and not include rushing stats - thats a bit unfair to him.

I'm pretty sure we are all aware what his stats are. Many times that I have pointed out his stats I would generally reference total yards or tds, the rushing stats are certainly part of the equation.

Hey, we agreed on something 

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 21, 2022, 07:15:20 AMHe wasn't trying to pick a fight.  You made some claims and he asked you what did you observe to draw those conclusions.   

Many of us have shared plenty of data, stats, observations and sources, etc to back up and/or articulate why we feel the way we do about various parts of the team.

The issue is if it is not what you believe, you just say we are wrong

In the case of others, they just get combative and try to pick fights

You can ask for our observations all you, AP, or whoever else wants, you know darn well it won't mean a thing to you