Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 23, 2023, 08:25:28 AM"If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years. You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call quarterback hell. They've got quality defense, they've got a good special teams, and they're going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they've got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy."

All this time I thought gettleman had no plan whatsoever but here he is laying out his blueprint step for step. Turns out it was well executed.

Quote from: Dgoodmantrublu on November 22, 2023, 06:22:00 PMThey can easily get out of the contract after year 2 and they still have plenty of cap space next season. YOu don't compound a mistake by ignoring the position. And there was no QB for them to draft after last season. Now they will be in position to address the position.

That's the important thing to remember when discussing Jones' contract. What other options did they have? It's not like Baker Mayfield was gonna do much better and they weren't in position to draft a QB. Maybe Will Levis as he started to fall. But to get him which ot JMS or Hyatt would you like to give up? So I think Schoens hands were kinda tied. Jones wasn't going to accept any sort of hometown discount (nor should he) so they would really be stuck with Taylor who can't stay healthy and while better than Jones was hardly impressive. But now they should be high enough to take a QB. Provided the Passing Paisano doesn't go ahead and win another game!

It's funny to characterize the #2 pick in the draft as a "steal" and even funnier that it's absolutely correct to do so.

Quick will definitely get a couple starts during this run of games and it does seem like Shesty is still finding his game a bit after the injury.  A lot of goals trickling in on shots he seems to have secured.  Some of that is bad luck but there's been a lot of that the past couple games.  He did flash that Vezina skill in his first game back after a shaky first period though so I think it's in there and he will find it again as the season goes along.  We got a long ways to go! 

Quote from: T200 on November 21, 2023, 12:05:25 PMYes, it cost them Lawrence. But they didn't have to pick Wilson.

The idea is that if they had the #1 pick it takes the decision making out of it.  That is a historically inept franchise, not unlike the Giants in recent years, if you can make the decision comically easy even a dope like Gettleman can't screw...well maybe he could....but most couldn't screw that up.  Once you make a bad GM make a big decision...you get Daniel Jones at #6.

Quote from: SlotCorner on November 20, 2023, 04:16:09 PMIt would be interesting to see what number QB they were. Josh Allen was the 7th pick, but the third QB taken that year. Its safe to say this is something else the Jets screwed up, but I digress.

If we don't have the number one, the ability to take a QB is dependent on who picks in front of us. I doubt Chicago moves on from Fields. Best guess is they take Marvin Harrison and trade down. Arizona is more likely to move on from Murray, and NE should definitely be picking a QB. That leaves us (I think) in third.

If the Bears end up with the top pick via the Panthers, they will almost certainly take Caleb Williams.  Justin Fields is fine but he's almost ready for a new contract.  Have you seen enough from him to make him a $200 million guy?  He seems fine, and has talent, and they could probably trade him for something, but I personally haven't seen enough to give him that yet. 

Even if you love Fields, Williams is an equivalent talent right now and will come so much cheaper that the decision should be easy to make.  They could take Williams and Harrison together or even potentially trade the 2nd first round pick to a QB needy team and collect a ton of pieces to build around Williams.  Either way, they gotta take Williams if they get that pick unless Fields puts out Mahomes type numbers consistently the last couple months.

Quote from: Quick Kick on November 21, 2023, 10:54:58 AMThe Giants are financially committed to Jones in 24. I would like to see them use their 2 top draft picks on O linemen and develop a line capable of run block and pass blocking.  This would help make Jones into a successful QB and give Barkley an opportunity to run off 100 yd games on a consistent basis.

Drafting a wonder QB with the same old line does nothing. Keep Tyrod and Devito around another year.

Why not take a QB in the 1st round and with the 2 second round picks use them on OL and Defense or just a pair of OL if the draft falls that way?  Tyrod is old and brittle and Devito is...well he is what he is.  Even if they start Devito every game next year and they suffer through another 2 or 3 win season, the QB class itself isn't nearly as good as this one.  They'd still be better off going QB this year and continue building up the rest of the team around him in my opinion.

Quote from: Doc16LT56 on November 21, 2023, 09:45:37 AMThis isn't going to be a serious debate by draft day and that's taking nothing away from Maye. I'm willing to bet the one scout in this group wasn't being honest about his true thoughts.

https://twitter.com/WBG84/status/1724802727312798043?t=twVj58X5RrBO_MQFRgSzLg&s=19

Or he went to UCLA.  There is no question that Caleb Williams is going to be the 1st pick.  The only question is to which team.  Maybe he turns out to stink.  Anything is possible.  You can go all in with pocket aces and still lose at poker.  What you don't do is fold pocket aces before the flop.  This kid is pocket aces.

Which again is not to say anything bad about Drake Maye or Penix or Bo Nix or Jaden Daniels or anybody else.  Caleb is just a better prospect than all of them.  Just like all of them are a better prospect than Daniel Jones was before he was taken. So if the Giants do end up picking a QB in the top 5 they may well get a significant improvement over what they've been dealing with the past 5 years. The problem is they had a great chance to get an absolute stud of a prospect, in fact going into last week they had the best odds to do so, and now it seems like that proposition is all but lost.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 21, 2023, 06:44:01 AMPerhaps if they were to draft a QB and then start Jones in September, and Jones plays reasonably decently, they could then move him before the deadline somehow and at least get something for him. And then DeVito could be the backup.

A lot of ifs there though. Plus I'm sure if Jones were to play "reasonably decently" next year (let's say 92 passer rating ball) and the team is something like 4-3, you'll have a chorus of people (both internally and externally) proclaiming he's "the guy" again and that he never had a real shot, and there will be calls that the correct move is to build around him for the next decade and trade the rookie. I could see Mara stepping in and basically insisting on all that, as he is obsessed with Jones' Eli-like, genteel personality.

I would like to believe the cheap rookie contract would allow for cooler heads to prevail. Even if Mara is in full bloom love. What I don't think is that anybody would trade for Jones at the deadline. Not as long as gettleman remains unemployed anyway.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 21, 2023, 08:07:36 AMI think it's more than a handful of times the 1st QB taken was not the best.  I am not saying I would rather pick later, but I think the data says when there is one great prospect (e.g. Andrew Luck, Trevor Lawrence) that is clearly above the others it usually makes big difference.  On other years, or the handful of outliers as you put it (e.g, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019) the draft order has not been a decider of who got a franchise QB. 

Again, I agree if you are looking for a franchise QB it's better to draft earlier, but to me it looks like the exception is the years that there is one clear best QB.  I think this year will be much more debatable in terms of who is the best prospect and the outcome for the QBs might be more dependent on where they go and how the team builds around them. 

What I can't understand is that people seem to think that the players are just going to lay down and tank because fans think its the best for the team long-term. 

Caleb Williams will be the #1 pick in this draft regardless of who has it. If someone trades up for it...it will be to take Caleb Williams. This is a great QB class, that's true, but it does indeed have a clear #1 guy and it's Williams.

The eagles are so good I'm not convinced the Giants could even beat their scrubs. Also Sirianni is such a jackass he might play the starters anyway just so they can have a 50 point win heading into the playoffs. I've never wanted to punch a coach more than this guy.

The passing paisano!

It was mentioned in another thread as well but a lot of these guys were acquired via trade.  I really hope the Giants wind up somewhere in the top 5.  A loss this week is basically a requirement for that to happen at this point.  If they do, and the Bears end up with 2 of the top 4 picks I imagine they would be willing to trade back.  So that might be the only path remaining for the Giants to get a QB in this draft. Trading up a couple spots by giving up one of their 2 second rounders among other stuff. 

But if they fall out of the top 5 I don't think the Bears would be interested in going that far back and I don't think the Giants would be willing to offer what it would take to move the Bears or anybody else off that position.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 20, 2023, 01:32:22 PMObviously it's not a big deal, but I'm somewhat surprised by DeVito's grade. I mean the guy had a 138 rating and threw three TD passes with zero turnovers in a game in which he got completely killed (9 sacks).

Maybe they're saying some of the sacks were his fault, which I would not push back on, but even if that's the reason he obviously still found a way to be very productive on the road in a winning effort. I feel like 70 is low for him.

That would be my guess.  I'm thinking a lot of those sacks were on him but at the same time better to take a sack than do what Howell was doing and throw a bunch of picks.  I think 70 is a fair grade.  A lot more good than we've seen from that position all year but nothing to make me think "holy crap this kid is the real deal".  At least not yet.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 20, 2023, 12:19:27 PMWe agree on most things GMO, but I guess we just don't agree on this one. I like Banks overall and I'm glad he's a Giant, but I don't like public profanity-laced tirades at other teams by our players on social media. Especially when we're a bottom-dwelling team like we are now. I just don't think it is a good look in any way, and I hope he doesn't continue to do stuff like this.

Show teams up on the field. Not on twitter or tik-tok like a 12 year old.

It was bound to happen some time!  I don't know, I just don't really care one way or the other as long as the guy is playing well on the field which he is.  He's having a great season.  Yea of course he didn't talk crap after the Seahawks game...they lost!  I would have had more of a problem talking crap then than I do after beating Washington twice. 

Plus he is from Maryland, went to school in Maryland, was a WAshington fan growing up and had a great chance to be drafted by his hometown favorite team only to see them trade up to pick a lesser player.  I get his motivation to stick it to them in particular and as long as he keeps playing well I'm fine.  Just don't start stinking up the joint and doing this.