Big Blue Huddle

He vomited in the huddle when faced with the same situation Eli came through on twice. QB rating was low for Eli because he played his career in a complex system and he took chances late in games when behind. McNabb played dink and dunk and choked when he was needed the most.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on September 27, 2023, 12:41:19 PMand had a higher career QB rating than Eli Manning, who will be getting a gold jacket.

Take it seriously or not. He was massively overrated. Defenses carried that team. Only two seasons with over 61 percent completion percentage in a WCO. Never threw for 4k yards in a season. Most seasons were around 3300. He just wasn't that good.

Quote from: madbadger on September 27, 2023, 12:38:52 PMHard to take your opinion seriously when you say that a six time pro bowl quarterback sucked.

We won the NFC title game largely because Alex Smith couldn't convert a single third down besides a meaningless completion at the end of regulation. If the QBs were reversed in that game, San Francisco wins easily. Their defense was simply a much better unit than ours.

Quote from: kartanoman on September 27, 2023, 12:16:11 PMFunny, I remember Smith carrying the defense against New Orleans in the 2011 Divisional Playoff game where Drew Brees cut holes in the 49ers' defense and Smith kept leading the offense and matched Brees score for score until he tossed the winner to Davis with nearly no time left to win 36-32.

Even in the NFC Championship game, Smith and Manning played to a draw with both defenses taking the game over. It came down to turnovers by the special teams which proved the difference.

Even in 2012, Smith had the 49ers at 6-2 before a concussion ended his career in SF. Harbaugh helped Smith resurrect his career and he sustained a period of demonstrated performance, self-confidence and leadership before he sustained that concussion. But history will show that Kaepernick brought a dynamic skillset to the SF QB position which transformed that offense and Harbaugh decided to roll the dice and ride it all the way to the Super Bowl where the 49ers just fell short in the end.

The 49ers traded Smith to the Chiefs in 2013 and Andy Reid further helped Smith develop and he had five solid performance seasons for the Chiefs.

So, I'm still not seeing the analogy between Smith and Jones. Especially since Jones hasn't been "carried" by anyone on his team, maybe that's where I'm missing the boat. You tell me.

Peace!

I think it is silly to scout colleges and not the player. He's not playing in the same system of years ago. He's playing for the same coach Jalen Hurts did. Guy has ridiculous arm talent and processes the field very well.

This is what happens when you have so many awful games on national tv. Not all of this has been on him. But you can't absolve him of all blame for these performances.

Quote from: sooners56 on September 27, 2023, 09:42:59 AMMcnabb feels the same way as most people do. Aside from some of the Giants fan base, I don't know a single person who thinks Jones is good.

I wouldn't call their corners lethal. This is a team that has been easy to score on so far.

Smith had an unreal defense that carried him. He was not the reason for the success of those teams. And that is the model for Jones to succeed. But that is a problem because you can't maintain that talent level once a QB is paid.

Quote from: kartanoman on September 26, 2023, 09:33:03 PMI like your list, Rich @MightyGiants , and I wouldn't be so fast to compare Jones to Smith either since the latter had  to deal with injuries early in his career that would compare closer to Phil Simms. His gallantry, toughness and on-field leadership were evident as he was a clear choice as team captain for the 49ers and, although he wasn't Pro Bowl material in those early years, USA Today made him a clear-cut choice for their "All Joe Team" for two consecutive seasons (2011-12).

As for his first six seasons (i.e. 2005-10), Smith does align with Jones in that he had a new offensive system to learn every year, had incompetent head coaches (i.e. starting with Mike Nolan, who was fired midway through the 2008 season for coach Mike Singletary taking over the rest of the season and was offered the job full-time. Singletary lasted two full seasons before he was fired in 2010 and replaced by Jim Harbaugh in 2011) yet showed glimpses of promise which appeared to justify his #1 overall picking in the 2005 NFL draft.

Yet falling short in the 2011 NFC Championship, and getting off to a 6-2 start in 2012, Smith was knocked out in a game against the Rams and left concussed. Kaepernick took over and the teams ended the game in a draw. Kaepernick started the following week, played well and won. Harbaugh stuck with him, Smith never started another game for the 49ers, and we know how that all played out in the Super Bowl. There is no comparing Jones to Smith there. Smith was traded to the Chiefs and had five productive seasons under Andy Reid. But none of those went any further than the Divisional Round of the playoffs. The 2018 move to Washington is well documented, with his nasty injury, and near-miraculous comeback, and playing until he retired in 2020.

Alex Smith never won the big one. He came within an overtime period of getting to the big dance; however, fate was shining on the Giants' side that evening. The following season, he suffered a fate worse than Phil Simms experienced in 1990 when he returned from his concussion only to realize he lost his job for good. For what ... a 6-2 start? Well, even though it took a couple of years, at least Phil got his starting job back in 1993 and, although it ended two steps short of a dream season, to have that one final hurrah in Giant Big Blue makes that season one I will cherish for the rest of my life.

Right now the Giants and Daniel Jones are about where the 2007-08 49ers were at in their development and that includes both quarterbacks. There are more growing pains to be had and instant gratification turnarounds are very rare in this league. They take time and Schoen and Daboll are only at Phase II of the rebuild process. It doesn't always go perfectly and playing against two of the best defenses in the NFL have made that pretty obvious.

Finally, a model, or as we call it a "simulation," is an analysis of a product's (NOTE: in this case, a quarterback) functional performance over time taking into account a number of variables (NOTE: let's call them "environmental constraints"). There are no absolutes for a Daniel Jones at this stage of his career and, especially so, given the state of rebuild the team is in. So, the simulation needs to play out a bit and the variables the head coach programs into the product's (i.e. QB's) memory may alter the result as the season progresses.

I, for one, am expecting to see something completely different this coming weekend. I say so because it HAS to be different in order to yield an improved expected outcome.

Peace!

McNabb sucked. He's the exact type of QB Jones is. Can run, but is a check down captain. He was carried by great Eagles defenses.

Sure. But I need to see a daring QB. The checkdown charlie routine is getting very old. You just can't win big this way.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 26, 2023, 05:29:19 PMYou can extend that example further to where the Giants stuck with Eli despite the many doubters.

You don't win Super Bowls by being timid at the position. Kerry Collins was a decent QB. We still sought to upgrade to Eli and that is why we won two more Super Bowls. We cannot be afraid of taking a shot at greatness.

Quote from: MightyGiants on September 26, 2023, 03:59:20 PMI will add a couple of other thoughts:

1) I am not sure it's wise to rush to judgment and declare after three games the Giants need to draft a new QB

2) History has proven over and over again, it's a lot easier to say, "Just draft an elite QB", than actually drafting an elite QB.   There are plenty of elite QB prospects who are backups, on the practice squad or out of the game; the league is littered with them.

Sills is terrible. This obsession with him is baffling.

Raanan said Thomas will be good to go. So that conflicts with Leonard.

There was a deep route to Hyatt that could have been thrown with anticipation. But Jones just doesn't take chances. He goes too far to the check down. This is why he's Alex Smith. A guy you can win with under really good conditions. But not a difference-making QB.

He's going to return. Not start. And they are very different type of players. Adams is more of a linebacker type who will play close to the line of scrimmage. So yeah. They are wrong.

OK. That's fair. But you don't need the comments. You can just look at the film at how they played the Giants. They barely even paid attention to routes behind the sticks.