Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Philosophers on February 06, 2024, 10:50:02 AMCan Isaiah Simmons be an effective edge pass ruaher from 9 tech spot given how fast he is?

He might also be a good safety option when they go nickel or dime packages

Quote from: Philosophers on February 06, 2024, 10:34:41 AMSo what kind of defensive players will we need to add to make Bowen's 3-4 effective? Since he blitzes less and wants his DL/edge olayers to generate the rush, U think we will need a good 3 tech DT who can win at LOS and rush as well as stop the run.  Believe we may also need to find another LB.

It's tough to say for certain because we don't fully know what he will do on his own.  However, the Giants will need to bolster their safeties (and, to a lesser extent, their CBs) because he ran a lot of nickel and dime with the Titans.   The DBs will need to be strong run defenders and be able to handle man and zone.  The blitzing ability of LBs and DBs will become less important.  His edge rushers are likely to be lined up wider and asked to run the arc so you want edge rushers with that talent. 

From the Giants website


The New York Giants hired former Tennessee Titans offensive coordinator Tim Kelly to be their tight ends coach.

Kelly just completed his second season with the Titans and his 10th season coaching in the NFL. He was promoted to offensive coordinator in 2023 after serving as passing game coordinator in 2022. Prior to arriving in Tennessee, he spent eight seasons with the Houston Texans, including three campaigns as their offensive coordinator.

In 2022, Kelly's duties included work with the Titans' tight ends, putting together the first- and second-down passing game, and helping with the offensive plan in the red zone. The team's tight ends collectively ranked seventh in the NFL at their position with 952 receiving yards, including 450 yards by fourth-round draft pick Chig Okonkwo, who established a new franchise record for rookie tight ends and led all NFL rookie tight ends in 2022.

On first and second down, the Titans offense averaged 7.6 passing yards per attempt, which tied for the sixth-best mark in the league, and in the red zone, their touchdown rate of 64.3 percent ranked sixth.

Kelly joined the Texans in 2014 as an offensive quality control coach and added assistant offensive line duties in 2016. He served as tight ends coach from 2017 to 2018, and in 2019, he was promoted to offensive coordinator, a title he held through 2021 while also coaching quarterbacks in 2020.

During his time in Houston, the Texans won the AFC South title on four occasions (2015-16, 2018-19).

In 2021, third-round rookie quarterback Davis Mills appeared in 13 games with 11 starts for the Texans. He set a franchise rookie record with 2,664 passing yards, completing 263 of 394 attempts (66.8 pct.) for 16 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, and an 88.8 passer rating. Mills led the NFL with a 116.8 passer rating in the red zone. Additionally, veteran wide receiver Brandin Cooks recorded a career-high 90 receptions for 1,037 yards and six touchdowns.

In 2020, the Texans offense led the NFL in yards per reception (12.6) and yards per play (6.4), while quarterback Deshaun Watson led the NFL and set the franchise's single-season record with 4,823 passing yards. Watson also ranked first in yards per attempt (8.9), second in passer rating (112.4), and third in completion percentage (70.2).

In Kelly's first season as offensive coordinator in 2019, the Texans put together a 10-6 regular season and captured the AFC South title. Houston added several pieces that Kelly worked into the offense, including tackle Laremy Tunsil, wide receiver Kenny Stills, and running backs Duke Johnson and Carlos Hyde. Tunsil was named to his first career Pro Bowl, while Hyde put together the first 1,000-yard season of his six-year career.

The Texans had three Pro Bowl selections on offense: Tunsil, Watson, and wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins. Houston finished the season with a 3,500-yard passer (Watson), a 1,000-yard rusher (Hyde), and a 1,000-yard receiver (Hopkins) for the first time since 2012. The Texans tied the team record for most overall touchdowns scored (46) in a single season and set franchise records for highest red-zone touchdown percentage (64.2) and fewest three-and-outs (24).

In 2018, the Texans captured an AFC South title with an 11-5 record, which marked the second-most wins in a season in franchise history and the first season with double-digit wins since 2012. Under Kelly, rookie tight end Jordan Thomas posted 20 receptions for 215 yards (10.8 avg.) and four touchdowns in 16 games (10 starts), matching Andre Johnson for the second-most touchdown receptions by a rookie in franchise history.

Before his NFL coaching career, Kelly was at Penn State (2012-13), where he served as a graduate assistant after having held the same position at Ball State in 2011.

Before he went to Ball State, Kelly was the defensive coordinator, defensive line coach, and recruiting coordinator at Minnesota State-Moorhead for the 2010 season.

Kelly spent the 2008-09 seasons at Illinois-Wesleyan, where he was the defensive line coach for the 2009 CCIW Championship team that ranked ninth among all defenses at the NCAA Division-III level. He also coached two first-team all-conference selections.

Kelly played defensive tackle at Eastern Illinois, starting all 48 games in his collegiate career, and serving as the team's captain in 2007. He was named to the Capital One Academic All-District V Team in 2006 and 2007.

A native of Chicago Heights, Ill., Kelly starred at Marian Catholic High School, where he is a member of the East Suburban Catholic Conference Hall of Fame. He received his bachelor's degree in sports administration from Eastern Illinois in 2008 and his master's degree in sport management from Illinois State in 2010.

His brother, Dennis, is an NFL offensive lineman who spent five seasons with the Titans.

Kelly and his wife, Katie, have two daughters, Norah and Quinn.

Tim Kelly's Coaching Timeline:

2024-Current: Tight Ends Coach, New York Giants

2023: Offensive Coordinator, Tennessee Titans

2022: Passing Game Coordinator, Tennessee Titans

2021: Offensive Coordinator, Houston Texans

2020: Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks, Houston Texans

2019: Offensive Coordinator, Houston Texans

2017-18: Tight Ends, Houston Texans

2016: Offensive Quality Control/Asst. Offensive Line, Houston Texans

2014-15: Offensive Quality Control, Houston Texans

2012-13: Graduate Assistant, Penn State

2011: Graduate Assistant, Ball State

2010: Defensive Coordinator/Defensive Line, Minnesota State–Moorhead

2008-09: Defensive Graduate Assistant, Illinois Wesleyan

https://x.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1754878745255510501?s=20


Personal information
Born:   August 17, 1986 (age 37)
Chicago Heights, Illinois, U.S.
Career information
High school:   Marian Catholic (IL)
College:   Eastern Illinois
Position:   Offensive coordinator
Career history
As a coach:
Illinois Wesleyan (2008–2009)
Graduate assistant
Minnesota State–Moorhead (2010)
Defensive coordinator & defensive line
Ball State (2011)
Graduate assistant
Penn State (2012–2013)
Graduate assistant
Houston Texans (2014–2015)
Offensive quality control
Houston Texans (2016)
Offensive quality control & assistant offensive line
Houston Texans (2017–2018)
Tight ends
Houston Texans (2019)
Offensive coordinator
Houston Texans (2020)
Offensive coordinator & quarterbacks
Houston Texans (2021)
Offensive coordinator
Tennessee Titans (2022)
Passing game coordinator
Tennessee Titans (2023)
Offensive coordinator

A point I saw on Twitter.   Cowden used to work in the Titan' front office until 2022 and now works for the Giants.   That gave the Giants some insights into their new DC and should give Schoen a headstart on the types of players Bowen likes.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on February 06, 2024, 12:53:44 AMWhat evidence is there that Vrabel micromanaged him? I don't know where this notion that Vrabel himself is/was a defensive guru comes from. His sole season as a defensive play caller saw his Texans defense as league worst in scoring. Maybe Bowen was an alright coordinator in spite of Vrabel? If Vrabel was such a a great coach (with a barely .500 career record) why is he unemployed?

To be clear, I don't really care about the Bowen hire. I think the Giants played it relatively safe. But you could have said the same thing about the Wink hire and now people are bemoaning his departure. Simple facts are Bowen has piloted top defenses in the past. Quite possible he fails, but I don't get the reckless negativity.

In 2020 Vabrel didn't even have a coach with the defensive coordinator title.   Bowen got the title the next season, but that seems like a strong indicator that Vabrel was very involved with running the defense.

Quote from: T200 on February 06, 2024, 09:11:00 AMUnderstood, Rich. I was just saying that many of the college players who make it to the NFL will be better, thus making the NFL product better. My comment was more about delaying the talent from college to the NFL, versus losing it, as you mentioned. To me, staying in college speaks more to the quality and productivity, not longevity.

The college game and the NFL game are significantly different.   I question how much developmental value there is for players staying 1 or 2 extra years in college.

Quote from: T200 on February 06, 2024, 09:02:06 AMIs it lost or delayed?

I think it's a good idea for players to finish their 4 years. Many don't because they're chasing the professional dollars. If they can get money in college, they're more likely to stay and finish their degrees. This sets them up for life after football.

The extra year or two of growth, development, and maturity is only going to help the NFL product, not hurt it. That's my take on it.

Tim,

Players in the NFL don't play to an older age because they spend more time in college.  There are only so many years a player can play football regardless if it's in college or the NFL

Quote from: T200 on February 06, 2024, 08:52:36 AMI think there's a QB in this draft that Schoen and Daboll want to see in Blue. I also think they will do everything reasonable to get him. If he's not available, I don't think they will draft a QB just to have one.

I agree to an extent.  I suspect the Giants see a QB (or more) they want in the top tier, but it's highly unlikely they will be able to get him.  I have no idea how they view tier 3, or if there is a diamond in the rough, they like in the later rounds.  If there is a quarterback outside the out-of-reach Elite 3, I think the Giants will try their best to grab him.  If there isn't, they will pass and work on fixing the team

Quote from: TDToomer on February 06, 2024, 08:47:23 AMAsk the same question to DLaw and Thomas who will wind up with longer careers with the Giants when it is all set and done.

Did Barkley get paid like those two?

Quote from: TDToomer on February 06, 2024, 08:42:56 AMNot true. The college players are more prepared and ready for the pros and still are subject to the same rookie cap. They are just delaying their big free agency payout by a year. The talent pool will catch up. Why do you want unprepared juniors declaring just because their families are broke under the old system prior to the NIL?

You are free to believe what you wish, but the top talent was leaving in 3, and now they are staying for 5 years.  That's 2 years of player's short careers that are being lost to NFL teams.  Consider a solid majority of the QBs coming out of college this draft are only a couple of years younger than Daniel Jones.  Consider the last draft. The Giants drafted RB Eric Gray, who will be turning 25 (he's only a couple of years younger than Barkley) this year.  How many years of service will the Giants get from him?

I am not going to go back and forth, but every extra year a player spends in college is one man-year the NFL talent pool loses.

Quote from: Gman329 on February 06, 2024, 08:40:30 AMI involuntarily cringed and groaned when I hit this one.  "Bend but don't break" is right up there with "prevent" in my list of things I hate.  DBs giving 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 7 and we spend all year hoping to "hold them to three".  Great.

That is what I heard from Pat's guest and fans on a Titans forum.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on February 05, 2024, 09:13:07 PMBut zero good ones.

They have one good but injury-prone one.

I hear fans and some pundits expressing views of what the Giants should do in the draft, that, in my opinion, are just not realistic.

1)  Trade up for one of the three elite QBs.  I think it's a given the QBs are going to go 1, 2, 3, and teams needing a QB are not going to trade away that opportunity.

2)  The Giants should draft Nix, McCarthy, or Penix in the second round.  I seriously doubt any of them will be there at 2, unless Penix fails his physical.

3) I think this may be an option, but not one the Giants could count on, is the idea of trading back up for one of the three QBs, and even then I think the odds are against any of the second-tier QBs lasting past the early 20s (again, unless Penix flunks his physical)


Now that leaves the following realistic options:

1) Take a second-tier QB at 6

2) The team likes 2 or 3 of the second-tier QBs and they trade down a couple of spots

3) The team bets on a long shot and hopes one of the 3 drops to near the bottom of round one and the team is able to trade up and get him. If they go that way they need a strong plan B.

4) The Giants wait until round 3 or 4 and look at 3rd tier QBs like Rattler, Pratt, or maybe Devin Leary (a bit later)

I listened to a few podcasts this morning.  Pat Traina interviewed a beat reporter for the Titans, and Nick and Dan went over the Xs and Os.   Some thoughts/points

1)  He's young, 37, with room to grow and improve

2)  He ran a bend but don't break defense that struggled between the 20s but did well in the red zone

3)  With the Titans he gave his DBs too much freedom

4)  He had Jim Schwartz as a consultant when he was in Tenessee. That's a pretty good DC to learn from

5)  With Schartz and Vabrel overseeing him, we don't know what he will do now that he is free to run his own defense as the true top man

6) He is likely to bring his own outside LB coach, Ryan Crow, to the team.  Crow did a pretty good job developing edge talent

7) He was described by the beat reporter as a good but not a great coach

8) From all I heard he reminds me of Patrick Graham