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#3841
Quote from: katkavage on January 28, 2024, 11:18:51 AMMG, those are, as of late January, the most probable options. There will be many others as we get closer to April.

Another option, though it's a long shot, is that the Giants could try to trade for the number one pick. It would be a risky move, but it is a possibility.

Also, as the teams evaluate these QBs much more closely, their status might change. Everyone right now has Williams, Maye and Daniels as locks going one, two and three. Maybe one of the top three teams find flaws in them and deem them not worthy of that high a pick? Maybe Nix, Penix and/or McCarthy elevate themselves in the evaluation process? Maybe Washington, after hiring Ben Johnson as head coach, decides, especially after, as a Detroit coach, seeing him play twice a year, that they will trade a second round (or third round, not sure what value he has), for Justin Fields, use their second pick on Harrison Jr, to team with their other very good WR, and go from there instead of gambling on Maye or Daniels. There will be multiple scenarios that might play out before draft day so, yes, everyone right now has the three QBs going first, that could very well change. I will say that Williams, of the the three, will not move. He will be the first pick. But it might not be Chicago who picks him. Maybe they swap with Washington, keep Fields, and draft the very talented Marvin Harrison? So many thing could happen between now and April's draft.

No doubt things can and likely will change.   However, there are only a few things that will move the needle and the Senior Bowl is a big one.  That's why I did this, so that we are up to speed and can participate or at least appreciate the changes you speak of.   The Combine and interviews will be the other major movers with pro days playing a lesser role.


Later I will do similar writeup for McCarthy and perhaps the top 3.


In terms of trading up, I consider that a major Longshot.   Teams needing QBs don't trade away there chance to draft an elete QB.
#3842
My thought is the Giants will have options.

Round one-  Is Nix worth the 6th overall pick?

Round two- If Pennix is there, is it worth the medical risk?  If JJ McCarthy is, is he worth the pick?

Round three-  Is it worth taking a flyer on Rattler, Pratt, or perhaps Milton (if Milton falls, it's worth a day 3 flyer just on traits)?  Could Rattler or Pratt impress to the point of being worth the latter 2nd rounder?
#3843
Quote from: BluesCruz on January 28, 2024, 09:47:58 AMI still like Penix Rich

His last game was a disaster but Michigan was unstoppable. Everyone has a bad game once in a while.  His accuracy, quick release and strength are peerless

The Texas game he looked like a QB version of Jim Brown.  He would be the perfect candidate to sit behind Jones this year with Devito as #2 or 3.

Work him in for the last few games

I have no faith Jones will re-birth.  I think he is shell shocked
and damaged goods

You will be able to see more of Pennix at the Senior Bowl.  I did a prep post for the Senior Bowl here

https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=68917.0
#3844
Quote from: Painter on January 27, 2024, 03:32:49 PMIt should be quite clear that the Giants primary consideration regarding its Quarterback will be to determine whether or not Daniel Jones is to remain as such beyond this year. As most Giants fans seem to have a negative view of DJ, and thus prefer to think of it as his last- fearing only that he might actually perform well enough to make it less than certain- the question becomes, do they look for a true successor now, or simply for a backup in a latter round or FA?

There have been 41 quarterbacks drafted in the 1st Round since 2011, the year the NFL changed the collective bargaining agreement to set a wage scale for rookie deals, making it much more affordable to draft a Quarterback.

Those 41 QBs taken in Round 1 have made 1956 starts with a W-L record of 1046-1058-7 which, quite obviously is less than .500, make of it what you will. While that is not to suggest that it defines success in each of those 13 past seasons, the fact is that Patrick Mahomes is the only one of the 41 who has thus far led his team to a Lombardi. Now then, it will be up to 2016 1st overall, Jared Goff or 2018's 32nd overall, Lamar Jackson to make it otherwise. We do see the point in it, no?

In any case, of the 28 not still on their rookie deal, only 11 were given a second contract by the team which drafted them. Either they were cut or their contracts expired. All together, these 41 quarterbacks have played in a total of 215 seasons since being drafted. Yet in only 42 of those 215 seasons (19.5%) did the team that drafted the quarterback make the playoffs.

That's not the sort of thing which compels me to start picking and choosing and pro and conning the 6 or 7 or 8 names being tendered as DJ's potential successor even if we feel that he belongs in that 1 in 5 category while not being able to do more than to define a lack of success.

Cheers!


Larry,

My views on this issue have evolved over the years.  I know believe the failure rate at QB is more a function of teams drafting QBs when they are not in a position to develop them, rather than the prospects are lacking in talent or the NFL is incapable of scouting prospects.  Drafted QBs need to be developed.  The environment for QBs to develop is behind an NFL-caliber O-line or better, solid receiving targets and a quality, stable coaching environment.  Teams that draft QBs while having what is needed to develop a QB prospect tend to enjoy success more often than not, while those lacking the tools to develop a QB will see failure most of the time.

Worse, the QB developmental window does close, so a QB prospect who has the misfortune of being drafted by an ill-prepared team rarely gets a second chance to fully develop with another team.  You had posted the scouting report for Daniel Jones, and it was pretty much what most QB reports look like; there are foreseeable paths to success and failure.  The teams prepared to develop tend to put their prospects on the path to success, while those not prepared or incapable tend to see their prospects head down that path to failure.

Perhaps the bigger issue is if the Giants are ready to develop a QB.  They seem to have the coaches and the receivers but the O-line is a huge issue.
#3845
I think it's worth remembering that  Jeff Diamond was a long-time NFL GM until his retirement.  He even won Executive of the Year.   If you want to know how a GM views the Giants' problems and solutions, this is it. 
#3846
For those who would like to watch video scouting reports

Bo Nix


Michael Pennix



Michael Pratt


Spencer Rattler


Joe Milton



These are just sample video reports; most of the prospects have at least 2 or 3 good ones.  Just go to Youtube and search- prospect's name scouting report  and a list will come up (I tend to favor the more recent reports)

https://www.youtube.com/
#3847
If you believe the Giants are out of the running in terms of the top 3 QB prospects, pretty much every QB that the Giants might consider targeting (with the exception of JJ McCarthy) will be at the Senior Bowl.  Here are QBs that we should be focusing on (I will combine my thoughts with Draft network quick writeups)

Bo Nix (likely gone in round 1, how high will depend on the pre-draft process)

Age 23 (turns 24 in February)

Height: 6'2" | Weight: 217 lbs

Bo Nix has stats and grades that match up with the elite QBs in this draft.  There is some that believe he was a system QB, so how he performs at the Senior Bowl will be quite telling

Bo Nix, Oregon
Full Scouting Report

What a week it'll be for Nix. An underappreciated talent in the class, the rapid improvement shown by Nix from his time at Auburn to his two seasons at Oregon was sensational. He's extremely mature, operates with a high level of efficiency, and rarely puts the football in precarious situations. He ranked first among 30 Power Five QBs (with at least 2,700 yards passing) in turnover-worthy plays with just five.

PFF stats




Michael Penix Jr. (could go as high as round 1 or as low as day 3 depending on medicals)

Age 23 (turns 24 in May)

Height: 6'3" | Weight: 213 lbs

Penix is an elite-level thrower, even by NFL standards.  There are questions about his game, and the senior bowl may help answer some.  Penix has a serious injury history that could cause this otherwise talented QB to drop.

Michael Penix Jr., Washington
Full Scouting Report

Penix Jr. can solidify himself as a first-round pick in Mobile. We know the arm talent, and it was nice to have Rome Odunze, Jalen McMillan, and Ja'Lynn Polk on the perimeter, but working in a neutral environment in a different offensive architecture will paint a clear picture toward Penix's floor moving forward. He surely won't be shy in stretching the field, but taking what's given, staying true to his mechanics, and remaining calm when chaos ensues around his feet are just a few things league evaluators will have a keen eye on.

PFF Stats




Michael Pratt (likely 3rd round target who could move up to round 2 with good draft process)

Age 22 (turns 23 in September)

Height: 6024v | Weight: 219 lbs

Michael Pratt, Tulane
Full Scouting Report

Pratt is a mature signal-caller who I'm excited to see go to work in Mobile. In the pocket, Pratt's experience shines as a processor presnap. He's quick to identify depth and principles of outside coverage. He has clean mechanics with a smooth delivery and easy zip, as well. Pratt can, at times, pull the string a little too much when asked to layer throws, but often drops it right into the bucket. He's not the most elite athlete at the position, but when asked to extend plays, he has no issue doing so to move the sticks.

PFF Stats




Spencer Rattler (likely 3rd round that could move up to 2 with a good draft process)

Age 23 (turns 24 in September)
Height: 6'1 | Weight: 217 lbs

If you want accuracy this guy is your man.  He is a long-time prospect who is a bit like Baker Mayfield. 

Spencer Rattler, South Carolina
Full Scouting Report

If you haven't checked out the South Carolina Gamecocks since the back end of 2022, take a few minutes and flip on Rattler's tape. A former five-star recruit and the No. 1 ranked QB in the 2019 class, his ability to evolve under center after transferring to South Carolina from Oklahoma was a joy to study. His mechanics and pocket presence are outstanding. He can rip it both inside the tackles and on the move and showed the ability to consistently make throws with bodies swarming around his feet. He has the type of athletic confidence I love under center and I'm excited to see him compete.




Joe Milton III (depends on the draft process, currently day 3 but could climb all the way to bottom of round 1)

Age 23 (turns 24 in March)

Joe Milton has only one year starting, but if you like cannon arms, he is your man.  Think prospects like Anthony Richardson and Josh Allen (not saying as good but similar negatives and positives).  If he shows accuracy at the Senior Bowl, watch his stock climb.  He was a career college backup until this past season.


Joe Milton III, Tennessee
Full Scouting Report

Milton III looks the part at 6-foot-5 and can rip it as well as anyone in the class. However, I'm interested to see Milton's efficiency over the middle of the field and ability to layer throws at a variety of depths with consistency. We know he can sling it 70 yards on a rope, but taking the underneath throws and quickly developing a rapport with wideouts he's never worked with in a neutral environment will speak volumes. He's got a ton of the traits you look for in a potential starter on Sundays. Per one AFC rep, "I'd be shocked if he [Milton] gets out of the top 100 [picks]."

PFF Stats




https://www.thedraftnetwork.com/2024/01/23/senior-bowl-2024-qb
#3849
Big Blue Huddle / Re: Another DC candidate interviewed
January 27, 2024, 04:07:55 PM
Brendan Daly
Kansas City Chiefs
Position:   Linebackers coach
Personal information
Born:   September 10, 1975 (age 48)
Career information
High school:   Springfield (IL) Sacred Heart-Griffin
College:   Drake
Career history
As a coach:
Ridgewood HS (1997)
Offensive & defensive line coach
Drake (1998)
Tight ends coach
Villanova (1999)
Tight ends coach
Maryland (2000)
Graduate assistant
Oklahoma State (2001–2002)
Graduate assistant
Oklahoma State (2003)
Assistant strength and conditioning coach
Illinois State (2004)
Tight ends coach
Villanova (2005)
Defensive line coach
Minnesota Vikings (2006–2008)
Assistant defensive line coach
St. Louis Rams (2009–2011)
Defensive line coach
Minnesota Vikings (2012–2013)
Defensive line coach
New England Patriots (2014)
Defensive assistant
New England Patriots (2015–2018)
Defensive line coach
Kansas City Chiefs (2019–2021)
Run game coordinator/defensive line coach
Kansas City Chiefs (2022–present)
Linebackers coach
#3852
Quote from: Dumpster Dan on January 27, 2024, 11:59:19 AMAsking a serious question because I dont remember

Did Daboll have these anger issues in his first year??


Dumpster Dan

Connor addressed this.  He said his issues were better tolerated when they were winning
#3853
Quote from: Philosophers on January 27, 2024, 10:57:47 AMI've wondered also.

Nick Saban ripped his coaches weekly.  Parcells as well.



Different eras, plus the more pelts on the wall, the more you can get away with.  Beyond that, people will tolerate more when you're winning
#3854
Quote from: Philosophers on January 27, 2024, 11:07:08 AMRich - I saw Joe Milton at Michigan.  He can throw it to Mars but he can't hit a house from 30 yards.  Horrible accuracy.  No sense of touch.


That was the knock on Josh when he came out.  Under Daboll that was fixed
#3855
Quote from: Bob In PA on January 27, 2024, 10:28:11 AMRich: What you say is true, but can you remember them ever banning anyone recently? Bob

I can't think of any.  Although I would think such moves would be done quietly.  Like the team calling the reporter's bossed