Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 10, 2024, 01:48:23 PMI look at it the other way.  If that is the price for #4, what could the Giants get for #6?  Maybe 2 firsts and a second?  I sure wouldn't mind a 2025 first so they can go QB hunting next year.

I would be pretty happy if the Giants traded down.  For the reasons you mentioned plus the team still has so many needs that more picks would be a good thing.

Quote from: Gmo11 on April 10, 2024, 01:21:02 PMDon't see the Giants paying that price but I could see the Vikings doing it.  They now have 2 this year alone and I imagine would have no problems throwing in next year's too.  And to be honest they probably should do it.  That is a solid team minus the QB.

I'd like to think that with the Giants picking 6 they wouldn't have to pay that much.  Since it's entirely possible the Cardinals would still get whoever they were planning on picking at 4 if they move to 6.  So I don't think I would completely rule the giants out of moving into that spot, but certainly not if it's going to cost them 3 first round picks.

I heard an interesting comment from Albert Breer.  He said Houston, not the Vikings, initiated trade talks.  So, I wonder if we are reading too much into the trade in terms of the Viking's desire to trade up for a QB.

Quote from: LennG on April 10, 2024, 01:08:52 PMIf they do draft a QB and it misses, it sets us back another 5 years.

We said the same thing when Jones was drafted, if we miss we go back 4-5 years and it has happened, be it for whatever reasons. If we select a QB it has to hit.

With 2 years with no first-round pick, it's going to set the team back much longer than if the team just drafted a QB with their regular pick

Pass! take one of the elite WR prospects instead.   The Giants can't afford to give up that sort of draft capital with their under-talented team.   If they pulled off the trade they would only screw up (again) their next QB prospect because they lacked the draft capital to ensure they had a proper team around him.

Quote from: Bob In PA on April 10, 2024, 12:56:18 PMRich: As for Daniels, what you said is one thing that does worry although he's top of my list, but that has nothing to do with processing speed.

I was referring to his critique of May.

The knock on Maye by Waldman is that his "slow" processing speed often leads to reduction in the yardage to be obtained on a particular play, because it's taking him too long to decide to throw the ball, which means it's often thrown to a less-than-optimal spot, causing the receiver to have to break stride or contort his body or even stop moving. This has little (or nothing) to do with completion rate. Maye is still very good at getting completions (good accuracy, good target selection, good at tight windows, etc) but in the NFL a lack of optimal processing speed not only costs you yardage, it also reduces your completion rate because defenders in NFL are far superior to what you ordinarily see in college. More often than not, pro CB's and S's are almost draped over the receiver, so any chance you lose to get him the ball at the optimal time and location is a very serious matter. Bob

Bob,

I believe that Waldman was speaking of Jayden Daniels rather than Daniel Jones.

As for DJ, I think the problem was he was sloppy in his professions early in his career, leading to too many INTs.  So Garrett and Judge drilled it in DJ's head to only throw the ball when he was absolutely sure. Now Daboll has been trying to ease back that terrible coaching (in my opinion) without going too far the other way that DJ goes back to too many INTs.

As Mara said, the Giants did everything possible to screw that young man up.

Quote from: Bob In PA on April 10, 2024, 12:12:11 PMRich: If you (or anyone else) saw Schmelk's interview with Matt Waldman (the guy who most teams failed to listen to when he tapped Mahomes as the top QB in the draft when he came out of college), he said the knock on Maye is (most notably) his processing speed. I worry about that, because many people believe that's what's "wrong" with Jones, and I don't think he has figured it out yet (and maybe never will). Bob

I have been reading and listening to so many QB reviews that the sources are all blurring together.  Someone pointed out that the issue with Maye is he is spot-on accurate if he's throwing to his first read but that his accuracy diminishes when he is throwing to other reads (suggesting he is not doing a good job reorienting his body to make the next throw).

I forget which Simms said it, but I tend to agree that QBs need to make most of the easy throws and throw in a few special ones.  The real issue is if Maye can develop the consistency to make most of his easy throws.

I just remember where I read it.  There is an article on the Athletic where they got some of the top private quarterback coaches in the country to rate and comment on how the top prospect's throwing mechanics

Quote"However his accuracy diminishes as he moves through progressions, (it's) a very fixable issue," a coach said. "However, in a non-developmental league, it needs to be fixed immediately, and this can only be done through on-field reps."

This coach's observation is that when Maye is throwing on rhythm to his first read, he's accurate. But as he has to move to his second and third reads, he struggles to consistently get his feet set correctly. Footwork has proved to be correctable at the next level.

https://theathletic.com/5390475/2024/04/09/nfl-draft-quarterbacks-mechanics-rankings-grades/

Quote from: Bob In PA on April 10, 2024, 12:12:11 PMRich: If you (or anyone else) saw Schmelk's interview with Matt Waldman (the guy who most teams failed to listen to when he tapped Mahomes as the top QB in the draft when he came out of college), he said the knock on Maye is (most notably) his processing speed. I worry about that, because many people believe that's what's "wrong" with Jones, and I don't think he has figured it out yet (and maybe never will). Bob

A few years ago, arm talent was all the rage when scouting QBs, thanks to Mahomes and Josh Allen.  However, I notice that many people using that term really mean the older term, arm strength.

Now, the new hot term is "processing speed".   Much like arm talent, I don't think the term is fully flushed out.   Waldman talked about Daniels processing too fast, in that he passed over one of his targets right before that player got open.

Frankly, I think most people overstate how much one can learn about processing speed from tape.  The reality is the person viewing the tape will need to know the exact play construction and the coaching points given to the QB, and it's even helpful to talk to the QB after the play to see how they saw things.

Much like some "scouts" like to dress up the term arm strength as arm talent, the reality is many scouts are simply gauging how quickly the ball is thrown, which is impacted by the design of the play and the quality of the receivers.  After all, a QB whose first option is often open will get the ball out quicker than a QB who needs to read all the way to their 3rd or 4th read.

Plus, there is the reality of time.  NFL teams have entire scouting departments scouting prospects.  It's nearly impossible for one-man shows to match entire departments of people in terms of time spent scouting the prospects.   As I said, processing speed evaluation is challenging.   Even if you have a pretty good idea of the play construction (and appreciate you don't have the coaching points), you would have to review each play in slow motion, repeatedly stopping it and evaluating when and how/if each receiver was open.

So, while I won't argue that QBs who can go through their progressions quickly and efficiently will be assets to their team, I question how well outsiders can really determine this trait.

On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk is joined by NFL Network's Kurt Warner to discuss the most important traits to look for when evaluating a quarterback prospect and break down the game of each top quarterback coming out in the 2024 NFL Draft

Quote from: Rosehill Jimmy on April 10, 2024, 09:36:27 AMSimilar approach without the subscription

https://draftboardguru.com/documents/2024draftboardOff_Post.pdf

https://x.com/JimNagy_SB/status/1778092639176306823

Quote from: nb587 on April 10, 2024, 11:00:36 AMIm not going to argue your point that there alot of angry fans at the Eli trade.  But, there were plenty of fans who thought that the trade was a steal for the Giants, that he was well worth the cost.  I dont know if Maye compares to college Eli.  But it the but if the braintrust believes that, let's figure how how to do it

The one thing that I find interesting is some of the comments about the Eli Manning trade.  I often hear it called a successful trade due to the two Super Bowl victories. While I don't dispute that two SB trophies are a good outcome, what we don't know is how things would have gone with Rivers or Big Ben, plus the draft capital given up to get Eli.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 10, 2024, 09:41:09 AMBurns and Allen have similar production over their first 5 years.  Neither has blown the doors off like a TJ Watt.  Burns has been more consistent with Allen going off in his contract year that was by far his best. 

If memory serves, Allen has been slowed down mainly due to injury issues

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on April 09, 2024, 12:07:03 PMFor you guys who armchair scout and/or watch a lot of college ball - where in those lists would you place the current Giants QBs?

I was going to try and answer this by giving the draft grades from Lance Zierlein for the various prospects.  Only the NFL is screwing around with their draft tracker so his grades are unavailable.      

A bit of a different trend this season


https://x.com/AdamSchefter/status/1778034704127504562

Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 10, 2024, 09:22:52 AMI really like Odunze and the Giants may need a true #1 WR as much as any team I can remember, but man is that position group deep.

The way I look at the WR position.  The top 3 are elite prospects with, say, a 75% chance of becoming a true number on WRs.  Beyond them, you are looking at prospects that might prove to be good in the league but have maybe a 10% to 20% chance of becoming true number-one WRs.

Quote from: katkavage on April 10, 2024, 09:18:11 AMMG, you can break them down any way you want.

What exactly does that mean?  Are you saying my list is inaccurate, or doesn't it show that the overwhelming number of QBs leading their team to the QB was good but not elite?

You say Goff was good to near elite but the Rams treated him as a throw-in in the trade to get Stafford, so your assessment doesn't match the Ram's assessment.

Sorry, Purdy is not on his way to elite.  Purdy is the poster boy for QBs propped up by superior talent.  Purdy is a top 10-20 QB who enjoys great protection, outstanding targets, and elite coaching