Big Blue Huddle

I don't think there's anything he can do on the field to make the Giants think "yep, we're good here" anymore.  There's just way too much bad stuff to outweigh the good by a wide margin.  He is what he is and what he is isn't great.

However he could play well enough to win enough games to push the Giants out of contention for a QB by virtue of them just picking too late in the 1st round to take one. 

I was more open to the idea once Thomas got hurt and they had to throw an equally terrible player at LT anyway so why not try....but if Thomas is healthy and already an all pro caliber LT you can't disrupt that.  Its the one position on that line they actually have a decent player for. 

Quote from: T200 on October 24, 2023, 12:10:03 PMThe focal point of the passing game needs to be Hyatt, Waller, and Robinson... in that order.

Somebody send that to Daboll.  This is correct but they seem allergic to it.

If they are going to forbid the defense from pushing from the other side, which as I understand it they currently are not allowed to do, then the offense shouldn't be allowed to do it either.  If the defense can also push then fine, but I imagine if they were allowed to they'd have done it by now. 

Quote from: T200 on October 24, 2023, 10:35:27 AMWhen Thomas returns, where does Pugh go?

I assume you mean left or right guard?  And I would say if Neal is going to be back at RT they would be better off putting Pugh next to him to hopefully stabilize that side.  Maybe help eliminate Neal from having to do any thinking, not exactly his strong suit, because Pugh can call out everything to him.

The Giants should and would trade practically anything to get their hands on a QB as good as Herbert.  Throwing left handed he'd be the best QB they've had since Eli.  So to answer the question...Yes.  He's good.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 24, 2023, 10:29:59 AMWhen Thomas returns, the Giants can focus on helping Neal as much as possible.  Teams can provide cover for one weak OT, but not two.

You think they would move Pugh to RG to help Neal out?  I know Glowinski has been solid recently but Pugh is an established vet.  I also don't know if Pugh has played on the right side recently which would of course also be a factor.  But if Neal comes back and is just as bad they may have to pull him and go with Phillips the rest of the way.  Until he too gets inevitably injured as is the way this season.

If they throw him the ball...yes.  This guy is electric.  This is the type of guy that can flip a game that's going poorly or take control of a game that's going well.  But only if they are willing to 1) play him and 2) throw him the damn ball when they do.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 23, 2023, 07:14:58 AMOne thing to keep in mind (I know this is obvious but it's worth saying out loud) is that they have to pay Jones the $40mm whether he plays or not. So that money is already spent. Right now at 2-5 they're desperate for wins. They don't have the luxury of making decisions based on what is optically convenient for them.

I do think they'll play Jones when he's healthy, but the leash won't be as long this time. If the offense looks like what it did before he got hurt, Taylor will be back in there, and he may be in there for a while. Simply put, the O line excuses won't hold nearly as much water this time around. Taylor has managed just fine behind this banged up line. The line is still clearly not good, but he has been more than functional out there as a 30-something journeyman backup making $5.5mm. So there really are no excuses for Jones to continue to be totally ineffective, which, save for two quarters in Arizona, he absolutely has been to this point.

I think you're right.. But what concerns me about that is Taylor game 2 was better than Taylor game 1. He's had back to back weeks of taking all the practice reps and it's helped. If they ride him he may well continue to improve. If they go back to Jones and waste more time effort and reps on him even if they do have a short leash we may not get the best possible Taylor.

So if it were me making the decision it's one or the other and we sink or sail with the choice. Either they hammer home the point that Jones just isn't very good and get into position to draft his replacement or they say screw it they're only 1.5 out of a wild card spot (miraculously) let's see if Taylor can keep it going as Thomas and JMS get healthy.

Quote from: 4 Aces on October 22, 2023, 11:42:43 PMI don't mean this to be rude, but I've always been confused about the high opinions of Kafka. What are they based on? Him coaching Mahomes? It seems he was annointed as the next great thing before actually doing anything. If you ask me, he doesn't inspire much confidence talking in front of the media - maybe he's a different guy behind closed doors. I just don't see the polished next big thing others - like Northwestern - seem to.

There is no evidence to suggest this guy's a good Offensive Coordinator. There is with Daboll. The offense looked better as a group this week, and earned 20+ points if not for the missed FG and Barkley fumble.

Also - the Giants weren't lining up in shotgun every play and using just the inside hand-off. They were under center, with a variety of run plays which if nothing else helps the pass pro. I would like to see DJ come back with Daboll calling the O. 

He was fine last year as they (temporarily) resurrected Jones' career. Actually he may have done too good a job because now they're stuck with Jones for at least another season.

The team plays better with Taylor. I'm not sure that's even arguable at this point. Because of that they absolutely have a controversy. Do they play the guy who's making 40 million dollars or do they play the best QB available?

My guess is if Jones is healthy he'll play and I think if he does he will be the best asset the Giants have to secure drafting his replacement.

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on October 21, 2023, 12:45:07 PMI disagree with the idea that we are going to start winning meaningless games. I accept they have done this in the past but still have Dallas and the Eagles to play twice - that's likely another 4 defeats. The only remaining games where I think they have a good chance to win will be the raiders and Pats. I think the Jets is closer to 50/50.

I also don't envisage they beat Washington this weekend.

So I'm not sure where those meaningless wins come from.

They should have beaten the Bills last sunday somehow.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 21, 2023, 11:04:26 AMRich,

All of the above is valid in my opinion. Both the point about moving on from injury-prone players, and also the point about winning enough meaningless games to make drafting a top QB more difficult.

There has been enough discussion about Jones in the qualitative sense in recent weeks, so I'll leave that side of it alone in this post, except to say that I fully concur with the side you are warming to (to move on from Jones). I'll leave that portion of this post there.

As to the point about the Giants, now 1-5, ending up at something like 6-11 or 7-10, I agree that that's a possibility, but two thoughts:


(1) This is actually a very deep draft for QBs. While Drake Maye and Caleb Williams appear to be going in the top three or four, there are other QBs like JJ McCarthy, Quinn Ewers, Michael Penix Jr, Cameron Ward, Shadeur Sanders, etc who have potential to be good. So if we're picking something like 12th we're not necessarily screwed. Plus trading up from a spot like that is always a possibility.

(2) I don't think it's any sort of a given that we rattle off a bunch of wins down the stretch. We still have to play in Dallas and we have to play Philly twice. I'll be surprised if we don't go 0-3 in those three games. Tack on the Jets (who are clearly more talented), at Saints (tough venue and a decent team) and the Rams (who always wreck us), and that can be another two or three losses right there. Plus how confident should we be in any game right now? Is a game like at Washington a gimme? Is it a gimme that we win in Vegas? We're kind of a mess. We're dead last in team DVOA. So while I don't think we're going to finish with one or two wins, I could easily see us ending up at something like 4-13, especially if we start peeling off some decent veterans for picks. I think the odds of picking in the top 10 are fairly good myself, and I am not ruling out the top five.

All the more reason for a firesale at the deadline of anybody worth anything.  Even if they just collect mid round picks at a large clip they could potentially use those picks on draft day to move up and take the QB they want depending on where they end up.  And given the number of positions that need upgrading even if they keep those picks and just draft 12 guys next April it'd probably still be more helpful than keeping these guys around to reach free agency.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 21, 2023, 10:29:26 AMWhat he was telling her was that he didn't have time for her and her stupid question. He had other things on his mind.

Like what he was about to scream at Tyrod for what he did at the end of the half.  I give him a pass for that given the unbelievable level of stupidity he was about to have to deal with on the part of his QB.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 20, 2023, 06:03:34 AMI consider Laffy and Kakko more bad luck than bad drafting, myself. Both were no-brainer selections at the time they were drafted. Any GM would have taken them with those picks.

I also think the Rangers have a history of poor player development at the forward position. Besides Kreider what good Ranger forwards were home-grown in the last 25 years? Maybe Zucc? I feel like you have to go back to Kovalev.

This is correct.  Kakko was 1B in a two player draft.  Hughes 1A, him 1B.  Every other team would have drafted him with the 2nd pick.  Laffy was 1 of 1 in his year.  Every single team would have drafted him with the #1 pick that year.  He was projected to be Connor Bedard type of a talent.  It just hasn't happened.  Whether that's bad luck or the Rangers lack of development is up for debate but you can't really blame them for making those picks, there was no decision to make in either instance. 

Having said that, they're still young.  And while you would hope to have seen more by now since they've been in the league a few years now, there's still a chance for them to develop.