Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 18, 2023, 01:50:43 PMThis is in no way a personal attack, as he seems to come across as a nice guy, but is there a single person who has been on the team for the last four seasons who has been more utterly useless as a football player than Matt Peart?

I guess Lemieux would be worthy of consideration for that dubious distinction.

I think those are the big 2.  Gonna be tough to come over the top with something that beats that hand. Complete waste of roster spots the both of them.

Quote from: UncannyGfan on October 17, 2023, 09:40:11 AMAm I right to say for the first time this season it felt like the Giants had a chance to win for four straight quarters?  I only had that feeling for a quarter against Arizona.

Going into the game with the state of the OL they really blew our expectations out of the water.

So in searching for why that was, we had the most observable difference, a new QB. It seems we've been talking more about the QB position then any other on this board by a long shot.

Can we conclude that Taylor was the reason that was a winnable game despite it being one of the highest probably losing game this season as the announcers pointed out ahead of the game?  Well that's where the discussion is heading next.

I think Taylor gave them a better chance to win over expectations because of how well they ate up the clock in the first half, not turning the ball over and letting the defense shine.  Ceri mention this type of style in another thread.  The team went back to trying to eat up clock to keep the overall game score down and giving the team a chance late in the game.  Jones or the offensive game plan moved away from that style this season, Waller being evident. Sunday's change in QB and OL situation made them move back towards it.  It was fun to watch and I hope they can stick with it going forward this season with either Jones or Taylor.  Right now though I'd stick with Taylor until Jones is completely pain free.

I tend to agree with that for the most part but hard to ignore the idiotic audible at the end of the half that absolutely cost the Giants points and likely cost them the game.  That's why it's a little bit of a closer discussion. 

As far as play on the field outside of that I do think Taylor was better able to deal with the pressure, make smarter decisions on where to throw, and showed a willingness to at least attempt down field passes where Jones has not.  So I would say he probably does give them the best chance to win games right now, but I also am not sure winning games is in the best interest of the team anyway.

There was also a legit defensive holding on that same play (1st and 25 if I recall) so that was going to be a first down via penalty anyway.  Having said that, holy hell is that an egregious call.

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 16, 2023, 10:11:08 AMI think epitome of being a Giants fan would be winning this game... Then finding out it was the difference in draft position to get a blue chipper. They had no business winning this game and their prospects for the season are shot. Of course I wanted them to come out on top, but I'm mostly numb to them losing at this point (had lots of practice in recent years).

It's such a confusing feeling watching these games.  In the moment I'm rooting like hell for them to pull off a miracle win if for no other reason than we get a week where we don't have to listen to the  football world laughing at how pathetic this team is...all while at the same time knowing that losing is likely better for the future of the franchise and since this season is a lost cause it's time to start looking towards 2024 and beyond.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 16, 2023, 09:15:23 AMFirst, the immediate sense I got watching the Giants last night was that Tyrod seemed more relaxed and functional in the Giants' offense.  I was wondering if the offense would have done as well with Daniel Jones behind center.   

Still, over the past few years, we have seen many fans create a standard that the Giants' QB needs to be held.  To that end:

Taylor only threw for 200 yards

The Taylor led offense failed to score a TD with 5 trips into the red zone including 2 snaps at the one yard line

Taylor cost the Giants 3 - 7 points by switching a pass play to run and allowing the clock to expire at the 1-yard line at the end of the second half.

The Giants were only able to score 9 points against an injury-depleted Bills defense even with Barkley adding 93 rushing yards

Taylor also enjoyed the advantage of playing with a lead (first time this season)


So I am torn between former Pro Bowler Tyrod Taylor not looking that bad and perhaps better than Jones on the field and the way we have been conditioned to evaluate Daniel Jones which suggests Taylor had a very poor night.

I really don't know what to make of things.


We could have witnessed evidence that Jones is shot (although it's possible Jones could regain his poise, but that doesn't happen often)

We could have just seen flash with no substance since production was no better with Taylor than with Jones

It's possible that hearing so much negative toward Jones (as illustrated in this thread) maybe things would have gone better with Jones.  Maybe Jones doesn't check to a run, or they score a TD in one of the 5 trips to the red zone, and the Giants win.

Frankly, I am not sure what the answer is based on the information available.

I guess the silver lining in all of this is that the Giants season may be effectively over, but things certainly will remain interesting.

I think you answered your own question though.  If you can't decide if Jones is objectively better than a 35 year old journeyman QB who has never in his life demonstrated the ability to deserve a long term big money contract, then that's kind of a problem for Jones.  We should have been able to come out of that game knowing for sure that nobody could function in those circumstances and that it wasn't Jones' fault that he's look God awful this season.  However, Taylor stepped in and I would say his actual football playing seemed to be an improvement. 

Now, he did have one of the absolute dumbest decisions in recent memory also thrown in there at the end of the half.  So it wasn't all roses for him either.  I don't think Jones checks out of that pass, at least I hope not, but I also don't know if the coaches have been trusting him enough to even give him the option to check out of plays at all.  I don't recall many instances at all of him doing that the past couple seasons.

So for me, I think if you sub Jones in for that specific play with 14 seconds left in the half, and Taylor plays the rest of the game the Giants win.  But if you play Jones the entire game...I'm not so sure.  Taylor showed touch and accuracy that we haven't seen from Jones this season and perhaps more importantly a willingness to throw the ball past 5 yards downfield. 

The Giants were severely out-manned last night.  They had no business being even in that game let alone in position to win it.  Taylor didn't play great, but he played good enough for the team to win.  Jones hasn't really done a lot of that this season.

There was absolutely no upside to throwing him out there to the wolves again.  Kinda feel for Tyrod Taylor for what he's stepping into but it will be nice to see if there's any difference as far as pre-snap reads and protection assignments.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 13, 2023, 10:01:03 AMThe #Broncos are officially releasing veteran pass rusher Frank Clark today, per sources.

Like Randy Gregory, the 30-year-old Clark doesn't fit Denver's future plans. But Clark has 58.5 career sacks, two Super Bowl rings ... and now has a chance to boost another contender.

That last word there pretty much eliminates any interest the Giants might otherwise have.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 13, 2023, 09:50:25 AMDolphins potentially, given Achane suffered a serious injury.

Chiefs could easily justify it as they lack playmakers in general right now.

All of the AFC North teams (in particular the Browns and Ravens) make sense, particularly if they win their next couple of games and are clearly in the hunt.

I think there would be substantial interest, especially if the price were just simply a 5th rounder (or even a 4th). You get a high level playmaker and have no obligation beyond this year. For someone who is thinking Super Bowl this season, that's pretty enticing.

Dolphins have like 3 RBs that are all fairly good.  Though Achane seems to be the best of the bunch.  And they just traded for Claypool for some reason so I kinda feel like they're out.  And Pacheco on the chiefs is great so they would probably look elsewhere, perhaps WR, rather than RB.  The Ravens are interesting though.  Barkley and Lamar Jackson in the same backfield is pretty terrifying for defenses.

So far so good!  Nice to get Laf on the board early.  Hopefully a sign of things to come.  Everything looked great if only for a day.  Looking forward to the season, particularly since the Giants season is already over.

They should absolutely try and trade him this season.  If they can't get a trade done for whatever reason I might tag him with the intent to seek a trade in the offseason so he can't just leave for nothing.  My guess is that was why both sides agreed to not include a "no franchise tag" clause in his deal over the summer.  Letting him walk for nothing would be a worst case scenario type of situation.

This....is horrifying. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 11, 2023, 09:50:42 AMIf they start Taylor, what are the odds he finishes the game?

Not great.  He almost didnt make it through the Dolphins game and he only played a couple series.  But I'd still like to try it rather than have a shell shocked Daniel Jones go out there and continue to take beatings.

If the Giants end up in the top 5 and the Bears (thanks to the Panthers) get the #1 pick the Giants should figure out what it costs to move up and get Caleb Williams.  To me he's clearly the best QB in this draft and the best QB to come out in a few years.  Maybe since the Herbert/Burrow/Tua year even though Stroud looks amazing in his first season. 

Maye seems good, but he's not at that level to me.  So if you're going to make the leap and draft a QB I think you gotta go all out to get the best guy rather than settle for one of the others.  At that point you might be better off drafting Marvin Harrison Jr if you can or the best defensive player available. 

They are going to lose this game whether Jones, Taylor or Eli Manning in his prime shows up to play QB.  The Bills are one of the 5 best teams in the NFL and the Giants as currently constructed are one of the 5 worst.  With that said, there is no reason to send Jones out there, whether healthy or not, to just take another beating and further destroy any confidence he had built after last season when he looked competent for the first time in his NFL career. 

Let Taylor start, see if there is any discernible difference with him vs Jones, and go from there.  Giving Jones a week off to decompress and really just not have to run for his life 30 times will probably do the guy a lot of good.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 10, 2023, 06:02:34 PMI still question whether John Mara will allow Schoen to draft a QB to replace Daniel Jones but I don't watch much of any College Football so I will defer to you all who do.  Interested in @Gmo11 thoughts as he was someone years ago who was high on Herbert and obviously nailed it.

Well thank you! I also thought Josh Allen was going to be the worst QB of that class so...ummm...not exactly batting 1.000 on these things. But since you asked... Caleb Williams and Drake Maye will likely be the first two picks in the draft. Personally I think Williams is clearly the better of the two. I really really like what I see from him.

If the Giants end up with pick #2 and Williams is gone it'll be an awfully difficult choice between Maye and Marvin Harrison Jr who is in the same tier as Jamarr Chase was coming out of college. Which is to say it would be stunning if this guy wasn't an all pro type talent almost immediately.

Deion Sanders' kid is also an interesting prospect but I haven't seen as much of him yet to know if he's worth consideration that high in the draft.