Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 07, 2024, 12:31:38 PMGronk was a second rounder and Kelce was a third rounder.  Just sayin'.

Part of this concept is self selection. Since few tight ends get drafted in the first, most of the great ones are going to come from later rounds. A lot of wide receivers get drafted early and yet 4 of the 7 1st or 2nd team all pro wide receivers were drafted outside the first round and two were drafted in the 5th. And that doesn't include others like Davante Adams (2nd), Cooper Kupp (3rd) and Stefon Diggs (5th) who became top tier WR from outside the 1st round.

What it comes down to is simply what level of production you can get from Bowers. If you think he can produce like a Travis Kelce (i.e. WR1 level production) then the fact that he's labeled a tight end shouldn't matter. Once they're on the field, they're all just eligibile receivers.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on April 07, 2024, 03:31:50 AMBad.  The draft is about more than just picking players.  If you take, eg, Odunze you get a bargain receiver for up to 5 years.  If you take Bowers you get a mid to high priced TE for up to 5 years.  One of the ways smart teams manage their CAP is not taking low value positions with high draft picks.  Which is why no matter how excellent Barkley was (and he was nowhere near as excellent as we hoped he'd be, but that's hindsight and not relevant to my point) it was colossally stupid to use a #2 pick on him.  I've said before, I wouldn't take Jim Brown with the #2 pick under the current rookie scale rules.  Precisely because the rookie scale doesn't take into account positional value, and positional value is real.

My main question here is how good you view Bowers to be. If he's just a really, really good tight end then he's probably not worth such a high pick. But if you view him as somebody who can give you even Travis Kelce level production then the WR vs. TE concept just becomes a label. At the end of the day, the only relevant question is who will provide you the most production between the players available to you.

Basically, the TE vs. WR distinction matters for things like fantasy football, franchise tags and pro bowl voting and the franchise tag part probably provides financial benefit to the team. On the field, whether you're a tight end or wide receiver is largely irrelevant.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on April 04, 2024, 09:38:12 PMPeople actually spend money to do a mock draft?

Wow.

I don't think you necessarily pay specifically for the mock draft (some might) but you pay for the site and the ability to do a mock draft is part of the package

I'm pretty simple when it comes to drafting QBs. You only do so if you need one and you think the guy you're taking can be a franchise QB. If there isn't one there that you think can be a franchise guy, don't waste your time.

I'd be happy with it. Drafting a QB will always carry risk, but it's a shot worth taking with a guy like Maye.

Went with CB and DT as I think depth at those two positions is huge and we haven't addressed it at all so far this offseason. Safety would obviously be a need too with X gone

Without trading down, it's hard to see the pick not being a QB or WR. I don't imagine there's a single defensive player on their radar at 6. Even Alt would be a complete shocker at 6 despite OL being a topic of discussion.

Went with JMS as I think he's the simplest answer. New OL coach plus better guards should make him better.

It's a breath of fresh air to hear this as opposed to a few years ago when everyone and their mother knew we were targeting Devonta Smith and Philly was able to leap frog us for him

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 25, 2024, 11:31:06 AMNow, if the fan's claims about how slow DJ processes were true and the coaches (the people in the best position to judge) told Schoen that Daniel Jones would never be better than a backup QB (ignore the whole winning season and winning an away playoff game against a double-digit win team) that he would have signed Jones to the contract he signed him to???

The Giants ended up in no man's land regarding their QB after 2022. Winning 9 games and, ultimately, a playoff game, left them missing out on the top QBs in the draft so the only options were either re-sign Jones or bring in a stopgap. That said, this is a team that is keenly aware of perception and I do think that bringing Jones back was at least partially because they didn't want the whole "how could you move off a guy who just won you a playoff game" concept. The other part of it was basically "well, what else are we going to do?" All that said, the contract was essentially designed to give the Giants an opt out after year 2 if it didn't work out with Jones. Basically, if 2023 went as it did the Giants would be in a position to start planning to move on from Jones with his contract being a one year albatross. Bringing him back didn't mean they loved him, it meant they didn't have many options.

Ultimately, though, people need to stop pretending that 2022 season was more than it was. The Giants ran a low risk offense where Jones' main purpose was to not be the reason we lost. While they won a playoff game against a 13 win team that Vikings defense was awful. Jones was fine but hardly a needle mover in terms of overall success.

Quote from: kingm56 on March 25, 2024, 03:02:03 AMGentlemen,

In regards to the rationale for DJ's poor performance as a passer, please consider he was criticized for lack of processing speed in college, well before he was saddled with the Giants' terrible OLs, or suffered any injuries.  In fact, his lack of processing speed  is what led Todd McShay to conclude DJ was a 'bad pick, who's skillsets were more suited to a backup vice NFL starter.  If you go back and listen to McShay, his assessment was eerily accurate.  All the signs were and continue to be present.  Again, DJ was never an above-average passer, at any level.  He wasn't a highly, or even moderately recruited HS player; also, he only amassed a few 300+ yard passing games in college, despite playing in a high-scoring conference. The reasons are obvious; despite being a good athlete, his mental/cogitative shortcomings limit his ceiling as a passer.  If you consider the latter, how many times do we see DJ make an anticipatory throw through tight windows?  More often than not, he's throwing simple crossing, post or nine routes.  There's also virtually no improv ability; if a play breaks down, so does DJ, with the exception of the occasional long run. As a passer, he simply never had 'it.'

I'm also mystified why some fans are signing up for 17 more games to see if he can become something he never was; it's more perplexing when you compare DJ's trajectory to every QB who's played over the past 30 years.  In short, no QB made the transition from average to SB winning QB after 60+ games played.  At this point, DJ is who he is, and I think the Giants understand their current paradigm... 

This is what gets me. The biggest knock on Jones was always his ability to process quickly. This isn't something where he was suddenly sped up by a bad O-line. It hasn't helped but this was always a major question with Jones and why very few people thought taking him with a top 10 pick was a bad idea. It's really why so many people had him as a day 2 pick.

Simply put, if you think you can get your QB of the future with the pick, you make the move. I don't care if you have to overpay based on value charts. The right QB can change everything.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 23, 2024, 07:37:55 PMThat's probably right. Unless someone trades up into the late first (would probably need two teams to be jockeying for that to happen).

And one of the truly QB needy teams is Denver and they don't have a 2nd round pick to trade up. Kind of feels like the Giants, Raiders or bust for those two even in the 2nd round. I think the Rams and Saints could be wild cards though if they try to plan beyond the veterans they currently have.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 23, 2024, 05:08:17 PMCould be. We have seen QBs recently that were supposed to go in the first round drop further than that. Matt Corral from a couple years ago comes to mind. So does Malik Willis.

Penix is likely better than these guys, but at the time both were being hyped up by fans and media as big time prospects.

I remember Liberty playing Ole Miss that year and like half the league sending scouts to see those two guys thinking they would both be top 10 picks. Both ended up going in the third round and, ironically, both teams then traded up to take another QB in 2023 (Carolina with Young and Tennessee with Levis).

Assuming the top 4 go off the board in the top 5-6 picks as seems to be expected now, it comes down to whether or not a team falls in love with Penix (or Bo Nix for that matter). I can see him going in the top 15 to a team like Denver or Vegas. If not, I don't see him going until at least the second round.

Quote from: Ed Vette on March 18, 2024, 06:19:18 PMApparently they didn't want the distraction. I didn't mean to imply he had a hand in where he was going, but he may have sabotaged a situation or two. He needs a step back. I don't know if he can be a good QB but I think the situation is good for him.

It will be interesting to see what the Steelers do with him. I'd think they'd pick up the 5th year option and essentially commit to him as their QB in 2025 at least if he doesn't usurp Wilson at some point this year.