Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 30, 2024, 12:14:48 PMI appreciate that many fans want the Giants to add a QB, but that isn't what this poll is about.  This is your biggest (non-QB, if so inclined) area of concern.  Where would you like to see the Giants add more talent?

Gotta be the veteran CB after losing Adoree and only having a sophomore Banks , maybe McCloud and then a bunch of what-if's!

I think signing 5 OL and having Neal and Eluemenor and then Ezeudu and Stinnie all under a better coach in Brillo Pad the OL should be fine (or at least average which is a whole lot better than league worst by a mile).

The DT would be nice too but it's not as barren as we are at CB when you need 3-4 capable or better ones in the modern passing game.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 30, 2024, 09:37:43 AMIn the 2022 offseason, most considered Daniel Jones a dead man walking.   

Consider:

1) The Giants passed on exercising DJ's 5th-year option

2) The Giants signed Tyrod Taylor who many fans claimed was as good or better than Jones (he did have a Pro Bowl to his resume)

3) Jones had injury issues and needed to prove he could stay healthy

4) Worst of all, Jones was going to have to prove himself behind a mediocre, at best, O-line with no significant receiving targets.  He would get a bit of a tangential boost from Barkley (who already lost something after his major knee injury)

Everyone was writing Daniel Jones off, there was much talk about the QBs in the draft. Only Daniel Jones decided he wasn't ready to be dead and buried.  He dragged his under-talented team to the playoffs and beat the 13-4 Vikings in the hostile Minnesota stadium.  He earned himself a solid contract.

From Daniel's perspective, this is just deja vue all over again.   I am not suggesting that Jones will stay healthy and knock it out of the park.  I am just suggesting we shouldn't be shocked if Jones plays like a franchise QB and takes the team to the playoffs again while at least staying healthy enough.

Daniel has had 'flashes of brilliance' as I mentioned in another post. It's the consistency that can be argued. Is the consistency more an issue of him or the lack of support system. When you look at the advance metrics of OL and WR performance it would tend to suggest the latter more than the former.

This year could mercifully and finally be the year they have removed the additional variables where it will simply come down to him and only him being what stands between an above average or better offense or another crap-tas-ter-ific year despite better pieces around him.

Being an optimist, I believe he rebounds. Giants missing out on Drake may have turned to be a blessing in disguise. Because with Drake it would have taken longer to rebuild around him due to the draft capital we would have had to give up (and no Nabers).

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 30, 2024, 10:36:19 AMI've spent a lot of time (too much actually) thinking about how many of this year's draftees will become starters out of the gate, which from all I've heard and read over the years (and I'm old), is the true measure of a successful draft

Without a doubt, Nabors is a day 1 starter;  I think Nubin is a day 1 starter as well; and I think there's an above average chance that Philips starts at Nickel. I think Theo Johnson will see quite a few snaps this season, but not necessarily as a starter, but he will be eventually and become to the Giants, what Witten was to Dallas (had to throw that in). Tracy will probably start as a STs player and, like Theo as TE, will eventually become a regular starter as a RB and gadget player. I have no clue about Muasau, unless he's a superb STs player...and to be honest, I'm still scratching my head over that pick; although, it makes sense if our new ST coach, Michael Ghobrial wanted him and thus, had a lot of impact on the pick, as he was a STs demon at Hawaii when Ghobrial was there  I think that's the same reason we picked up Eluemunor in free agency, as he was one of Bricillo's star students/players at the Raiders. It's nice that Schoen respects his coaches enough to allow them a chance to reunite with a player that is special to them...but I digress

So, if I'm right, three of the draft picks will be starters on day one, and two will become starters soon (within two years). If I'm right, that makes this a very successful draft

Post draft, Secondary especially corner is the biggest concern right now, I would think. They addressed WR1 with a top 6 pick who carries a legitimate blue-chip grade that is higher than most WR1's in most 'normal' draft classes. They addressed safety with an extremely instinctual split zone ready type safety in Nubin and have two OK guys in Pinnock and possibly Belton. They added 5 vet OL , FIVE, and most importantly an OL ball coach who really seems to be a 'good one'. CB got Banks maybe McCloud and a bunch of very young ,injury prone or just unproven guys after that. In these 3-4 WR sets that are run more frequently , that's a dangerous recipe. They lost Adoree, the main veteran presence back there.

I think they are going after one post draft.

Akella Witherspoon, Gillmore, Nelson, Peterson. All still out there. Akella is 29 and steady. He'd be my choice. Followed by Gillmore who is older but was still half decent last year.

SOme may not agree but I think this draft will have 4 maybe more who become positive to strong contributors to the team and a few day 1 starters. I think we bring in a vet CB and this team will hinge on DJ. If he is the real deal then this team will surprise.

Quote from: FL GMAN on April 29, 2024, 08:42:59 AMHow does Nabors compare to OBJ as prospects. Who is higher rated, faster, better hands etc. I'm not saying he is going to be OBJ, just curious as to how they compare coming out of college. They seem to be similar in size.

My humble opinion, OBJ was a crisper route runner. His routes were for the most part very precise. Nabers rounds off some of his stuff. That will need a bit more work in the NFL. But the overall size, speed, body frame package is better than Odell. He is such a freak athlete though that he will probably still be really good as he hones his craft and absolutely elite once his route running appreciably improves.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on April 29, 2024, 03:17:25 PMI've said it before, but I think it's worth bringing up again

The biggest changes this year are

1) a lot of coaching changes, in which the new coaches are younger than Daboll and hungry. New DC, New STC, New OLC, new Director of Strength and Conditioning...all with good pedigrees. The problem with older coaches with a ton of experience, is they have a hard time taking orders from a HC that is younger and greener than them. I think that's what happened with Wink. That problem "should" go away - this will be "Daboll's Team" now

2) Like last year's acquisition of Okereke, this year it's Brian Burns. Mixing in a stud with the youngsters. We will be better at forcing the QB to get rid of the ball faster, or he'll have grass stains on the back of his jersey, or have to pick mud out of his face mask. Burns is going to be fun to watch and will probably help Thibs on the other side of the line

3) We're young and getting experience under the rookies' belts, and that's imperative. We've added speed and tenacity all over the defensive backfield, and added a ball hawk in Nubin. We have a significantly upgraded receiver room and some interesting young RBs with fresh legs

4) We won't be so predictable as we are no longer a "Barkley-centric" offense. I love Barkley, but every team we faced had a defensive strategy of stopping Barkley first and foremost. Now they'll have to scheme the entire field when facing us

5) Fingers crossed that we will finally have a season in which we don't lead the league in injuries. Hopefully, Frank Piraino (our new S&C coach) will make a dramatic difference

When Schoen took over, we were a mess. A smithering of NFL quality players mixed in with a lot of mediocre and less-than-mediocre players, and a bench made up of "Street Signings" and other teams' castoffs...no depth at all. We are moving in the right direction, but we have to have patience...which is something fans have little of

Was Wink an increasing cancer last year? That was a very strange dynamic to say the least and the defense did not seem like it had a really sound plan many games.

Quote from: Gmo11 on April 29, 2024, 02:51:59 PMI like it.  I've held the view for a while now that the team isn't THAT far off they just are far off at the QB position.  Which is why I was rooting for a QB to be picked at 6 this year.  Nabers is pretty damn good though.

The defense is young and talented.  The offensive line remains to be seen what happens with those guys but the rest of it is solid minus the QB.  So this time next year they should be all in on getting a new QB by any means necessary and should they do that, I think they have a chance to be in on a division title.

Pass Catchers that has started games in Daniel Jones Career

2019:
Shepard, Engram, Tate, Bennie Fowler, Slayton, Kaden Smith, Cody Latimer

2020:
Shepard, Engram, Slayton, CJ Board, Tate, K Smith, Austin Mack, Toilolo

2021:
Toney, Shepard, John Ross, Board, Golladay, Kyle Rudolph, K Smith, Myrick, Sills

2022:
Richie James, Bellinger, Wan'Dale Robinson, Toney, Golladay, Cager, Sills, Marcus Johnson, Nick Vannett, Myrarick, Hodgins

2023:
Hyatt, Robinson, Waller, Bellinger, Campbell, Hodgins


Which one of these guys was he holding back or defenses were scared of?

Was there any that went to another team and lit it up? Richie James? Toney?

Did he get an in the prime Rudolph? Tate? Golladay? Shepard even?

These are a pretty horrific grouping of skill players if we are being honest.

Throw in a Bobby Johnson coached offensive line and one doesn't need much imagination to see why a QB might not produce much with this team. Again I am not super convinced of DJ being a star but if we are being honest we have to admit he hasn't had much to work with either.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 29, 2024, 09:20:55 AMThe ones that interest me from this list

OL Dalton Risner
DL Calais Campbell
CB Stephon Gilmore
CB Adoree' Jackson

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/lists/13-free-agents-new-york-giants-could-sign-following-2024-nfl-draft/?taid=662f9d8dce74510001c1459c&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

I'll throw in Akella Witherspoon. 29 and a fairly good corner who has played on winning teams

Quote from: katkavage on April 29, 2024, 11:00:34 AMI had to skip through the QB section. You lost me at "flashes of  brilliance." I must have missed those. I've seen some competent play, mostly against bad teams. Never seen any brilliance. The rest of the post is very accurate.

I mean saying he has 'flashed' brilliance is not an unfair statement. Rookie year in numerous games (Tampa etc.) and preseason when he was 29-34 passing, Minny playoff game in 2023, Carolina, Colts, Washington multiple times, numerous huge runs throughout his career etc.

 Saying he has consistently displayed it whether due to lack of support around him or a lack of talent himself is another matter entirely.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 29, 2024, 10:03:07 AMI agree. I appreciate that many are focused on the QB being the same, but in terms of building a better, more talented roster, Schoen seems to be moving in the right direction.

Daboll talked about "generators" in his post-draft presser. 


I think the Giants had done a pretty good job adding more "generators to their roster

Hyatt on the low end has already proven his speed has to be accounted for on every play he is in for. That alone opens things up for other players. On the high end he becomes a nuanced route runner. Kinda a more explosive Slayton, like a lot more.

Didn't see this post before by Mighty , but it's excellent perspective.

You know Daboll when he came on board in '22 said 'This must be the slowest team in the NFL' . You can see since 2022 they have added a crap ton of speed, quickness guys to this roster.

Team speed is drastically transformed.

If Daniel is what we think or hope he is he will come in no different than last year. On a mission. I don't think it was for lack of effort it was just a historically bad OL that messed with his head. It derailed the entire season.

I know it's 5 years in and the fan base has justifiably lost patience. However, it doesn't change the fact that we all have mostly agreed that he has never had a good system to operate in. I think the issue is people look at that it's been 5 years and the talent has yet to convert to high level production. Now some just say he isn't a talented QB so even with better talent it won't make a difference. Well hopefully this is the year we finally find this out. Because if the OL is even average or the WR group is even average for that matter that will be about 5 levels above anything DJ has had to work with his entire career.     

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 29, 2024, 10:18:09 AM@Uncle Mickey

This is an excellent summary, well done 


Interesting suggestion about Bellinger getting too heavy.  He seemed to decline year two, but I didn't know why.

One thing to remember about Bowen: the Giants gave him some serious help.  The Giant's long-time DB coach, Jerome Henderson (who is on this 3rd DC), is an excellent coach.   At 54, his window for a DC job may have closed (he did have an interview or two).   They promoted Henderson to DB coach AND passing game coordinator.   I think Henderson will be a valuable asset for Bown.   Plus, the Giants still have the best D-line coach in the game, Andre Patterson.   Bowen may be a bit of an unknown, but it appears between the talented added and the coaching support structure, the Giants did all they could to put him in a position to succeed.

Excellent points on the defensive coaching structure Mighty. Some strong veteran presence to stabilize the group. Wink was a disaster last year and it showed with his defensive performance and it effected all units. Think his ego got the best of him.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 29, 2024, 10:07:56 AMYou make a very fair point.  Although, I suspect the Giants would like to see Jones show a bit more fire and passion. 

I think he has an interal fire burning to be good. He just doesn't show it overtly kinda like Eli.

That's not necessarily an issue in my mind at least.

If Daniel goes into a shell it would be bad. But if he uses this as fuel for the fire it could be a big positive.

He came in last year on a mission. I don't think his preseason performance was a fluke. The issue was preseason doesn't reveal the warts of an OL nearly as much as the regular season does. The OL was the major contributing factor behind the offense falling apart and Bobby Johnson was a big part of that too.

If that theory is correct then he could perhaps have a big rebound this year. Though I so badly wanted Maye I can also accept that Daniel could be pretty good with a better cast too.