Big Blue Huddle

I'm cool with giving McKethan a shot.  Pugh should also be starting as quickly as humanly possible.  Whether at guard or tackle but that guy couldn't be worse than lemieux if he tried.  They really need to hope JMS is good to go moving forward.  And if he needs these next two weeks off to recover go ahead and take them cause the Giants aren't winning these games with or without him.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 04, 2023, 10:06:53 AMChecking down and bailing on the pocket are the common theme with these missed plays.  After commentary from the 49'ers and Seahawks players after both games it's become obvious to the rest of the league how to play the Giants passing game.

Schoen/Daboll didn't pick up the 5th year rookie option because they didn't believe they had a good QB when those guys arrived.  Last year they simplified the offense immensely and Jones was able to have the best season of his career, which admittedly isn't saying all that much, but he showed improvement.  This season...I don't know.  Maybe they tried to open up more things and he can't handle it.  Maybe he's shell shocked from all the OL not blocking.  Regardless he has regressed back to the guy he was when they got here and they are probably both pissed off they didn't trust their own instincts and allowed Jones to fool them into thinking he was trending in the right direction after his first not-awful season.

Quote from: BluesCruz on October 04, 2023, 11:20:56 AMall this talk reminds me of a dog chasing its tail

The season is not over.  12 games to go

A turnaround would be nice, maybe improbable but possible

I have not thrown in the towel as yet.   lets see how it all plays out before building a gallows

They have the Dolphins and Bills up next on their schedule.  Last week was as close to a must win as you can have and they not only lost, they were non-competitive.  The only way they can hang with either of these next two teams is if those teams completely take the week off as far as preparations go believing they could show up without any practice and still whip the Giants.  And to be honest, those teams are so good they might be able to actually do it.

I would like to see Pugh and Neal as the guards.  Maybe let Neal go to the left side since he looked like an all pro in college at LT so maybe his brain can't convert to the right? Pugh goes to the right. And then draw straws for who gets to play RT

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 04, 2023, 07:58:14 AMI agree, although at least Schoen exhibited some degree of discipline with both Jones and Barkley. Both are still on the team, but he didn't cave to Barkley's demands, and the Jones contract, while clearly a substantial investment, is structured very differently from the way the Herbert/Lamar/Burrow contracts are, and I don't just mean the size of the AAV.

I agree that the 2022 season probably did the franchise no favors in terms of the medium term, but I do think Schoen was careful to not over-commit to the staples of it and left himself some outs.

That's a good point too. Gettleman would have tied a Jones/Barkley anchor around this team for the next 5 years. At least Schoen appeared to hedge his bet with Jones being able to get out after next season and Barkley being gone after this one.

If they have a chance to take a QB they should do that. Let him sit a year while Jones takes a beating next season and then start the rookie after that when hopefully Jones is off the books so that money can be allocated to the 71 holes that need to be plugged.

Let's try him at guard and find out. Cause it's pretty clear he's not a tackle.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 04, 2023, 06:38:25 AMWas Gettleman that heavily attacked by the fans 1.25 years into his tenure? I honestly don't remember but I doubt it.

Also, were you unhappy with Schoen just after last season, when we won our first playoff game in a decade a year after he and his hand-picked, coach of the year-winning coach took over? I'll speak for myself but I thought that was a pretty darn good first year given what was handed to him.

So while I in no way am "giving anyone a pass", I think it's a little early to throw the guy completely under the bus. Obviously if this season ends up being the disaster that it is already starting to look like it's going to be, then the view on Schoen will be different than it was last February.

But I'm not ready to just jump ship right now and say this guy is a bad GM or has done a terrible job overall. No GM is perfect, where every single decision they make works out well. That wasn't true with George Young or Ernie Accorsi, or anyone else in the league.

Agreed. This was always going to take a couple years to climb out of the gettleman hole. 2024 always should have been the target. What happened last year, while fun in the moment, hurt them in the long run.  If they had this season last year there's no Jones no Barkley and a fresh rebuild happening which is what they desperately need.

Schoens biggest mistake so far for me is not seeing last year as the mirage it was and thinking they could compete for anything this year.

Quote from: Trench on October 04, 2023, 03:09:01 AMAs was stated some of those sacks were on Jones

Yep.

https://x.com/danorlovsky7/status/1709323680130494468?s=46&t=ztHQkdrs2C-vkXmhNZla-g

Quote from: T200 on October 03, 2023, 03:54:42 PMIf he tosses that over Campbell's and Witherspoon's heads, it's a TD. The animation clearly shows it.

Not only that...but if he panics and decides screw this I'm just getting rid of this thing before the OL collapses he has an open Wandale out wide.  Even if he doesn't get the TD it's an easy completion and they live for 3rd down.  He did the only thing he absolutely couldn't do on that play.  I get Daboll's frustration.  There's simply no excuse.

Orlovsky was just on McAfee's show saying of the 11 sacks he put 4 on the OL and 6 on the QB, either not getting the protection right or scrambling into the sack when he didn't need to. 

(the last one being that lateral play to campbell that is considered a sack for some reason)

Sign him to the starting job.  I don't much care if it's at OT or OG at this point he's significantly better than anybody the Giants are currently trotting out there.

Quote from: Rambo89 on October 03, 2023, 11:52:03 AMHe got drafted so high because he was coached by David Cutcliffe who has a good reputation with QB's.  He was drafted 6th overall because of that and John Mara's desire to find the next Eli which he thought Jones was because of Cutcliffe and Jones's personality being similar to Eli.

And Gettleman fell in love at the Senior Bowl.

Quote from: TDToomer on October 03, 2023, 11:16:12 AMThey have got to bring Justin Pugh in for a workout right?

They already did once. He left without a contract. Apparently so Shane could get more reps at sucking.

That is an unstoppable play except when the Giants run it apparently. It should be illegal since defenders can't do the same thing so why should the offense. I didn't mind the call at all because again...it should be an unstoppable play. They just couldn't even execute THAT properly yesterday.

Did winning last season, including a playoff game, do more harm than good?

At the time I didn't think so, assuming that the front office/team would understand that the team wasn't as good as their record indicated and would plan accordingly.  I think now that it may well have hurt the team to win all those flukey games. 

Because without those wins, Jones is gone as was originally the plan when they didn't pick up his 5th year. Beyond that, the Giants would be committed to the rebuild.  They would likely not have traded picks for pieces (even if I still think the Waller trade was too good to pass up) and we could be targeting next season for the turnaround as they should have been all along.

Imagine a world where Tyrod Taylor is starting, the team is just as bad as it is now, only they are planning building and preparing a team for a rookie QB coming in to start 2024.  Which would then open a 5 year window where the QB is cheap and that money can be spent on....well...everything else because the team needs everything right now.

Time for Schoen and company to take a good hard look at this team and adjust plans accordingly.  The fire sale should start immediately.  Everybody but Thomas and the guys they drafted the last two years, should be made available.  Including Daniel Jones if you can find a team willing to take him.  Collect as many picks as you possibly can and try like hell to put yourself in a position to draft a new QB.