Big Blue Huddle

I gave my view of the matter in the "Caving for Caleb" thread to wit:

While watching the game last night, I couldn't help but wonder what Overreaction Sunday might have to say about Caleb Williams's performance. What has been posted here so far seems fair and reasonable.

In any case, it is somewhere between unlikely and unimaginable that Williams might be available for picking*, and even so that Daniel Jones-barring disability-will not be the Giants starting QB through at least all of next year even if he disappoints, and very likely through 2025 as well. It's all about guaranteed money, and active and dead cap costs which along with his performance which will determine whether it's for 1 or 2 more years, or he gets an extension before then.

And when it comes to his performance, there is simply no way at present to separate it from that of his undermanned, undernourished, currently feckless Oline.

* other than as trade bait.

Cheers!

While watching the game last night, I couldn't help but wonder what Overreaction Sunday might have to say about Caleb Williams's performance. What has been posted here so far seems fair and reasonable.

In any case, it is somewhere between unlikely and unimaginable that Williams might be available for picking*, and even so that Daniel Jones-barring disability-will not be the Giants starting QB through at least all of next year even if he disappoints, and very likely through 2025 as well. It's all about guaranteed money, and active and dead cap costs which along with his performance will determine whether it's for 1 or 2 more years, or he gets an extension before then.

And when it comes to his performance, there is simply no way at present to separate it from that of his undermanned, undernourished, currently feckless Oline.

* other than as trade bait.

Cheers!

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 12, 2023, 09:20:31 AMLarry,

This is an outstanding post.  I think you should debate starting threads less and starting threads more.  This is the sort of high quality content we strive for, well done 

Thank you, Rich. I am pleased and grateful for your support, and for Ed's and for that of so many others. I am encouraged to see how many folks here share my sentiments and maintain control of their emotions when as Giants fans it is not always easy to do. Certainly, it makes this old Giants fan and BBH member proud.

Cheers!

Understandable given the expectation and subsequent disappointment but simply not factually accurate. And worse, it is an assertion (a whine?) which risks the loss of one's dignity.

Cheers!

I debated beginning this thread, a rarity for me in any case, by saying "As usual" I figured there was no point in stating the obvious. With more than two-thirds of the season yet to be played it is simply too soon to indulge our biases and personal conceits by second-guessing the front office, coaches and/or players.

That's not to suggest that we shouldn't be surprised and disappointed and wondering why. What I am suggesting, however, is that the central issue is the same as it was before the season began which is whether or not Daniel Jones, not can be or will be, but is the Giants Quarterback of the future. And what does that mean? It means capable of winning a Lombardi whether likely or not as was so with Eli whose career Regular Season numbers have been described, arguably and I think unfairly, as "profoundly mediocre"

Quite unfortunately, a fair and proper determination re Jones cannot and should not be made under current circumstances which involves having had and still having to play behind the league's worst Oline (30 sacks, 100 pressures in 5 games). That's not just inadequate, it is totally unacceptable given the absence of Thomas and Schmitz not to mention Barkley for who knows when.

Thus, unless and until as the season progresses, there is significant improvement in that one regard, we won't have had just a losing season but a wasted season going forward. An unhappy outcome for sure and more than just unimagined, unexpected, and unfortunate for Schoen and Daboll.

Cheers! or better yet, À votre santé   

My sentiments are exactly the same as Ed's. And in that respect, the PROBLEM faced by Schoen/ Daboll et al, and all of us by extension is, that given the exceedingly ugly play of what has become a dog's breakfast of an Oline, there currently is no way to properly assess Daniel Jones's ability as the Giants starting Quarterback now and for what may be the remainder of the season.

We can only hope that the return of Thomas to LT, Bredeson to LG, Schmitz to OC, and Barkley at RB, if and whenever, may be of benefit to DJ and as such to any and all needed assessments.

Cheers!
 

They have been historically been so bad over the first 4 games and with a pessimistic outlook today that I suppose it's not a surprise that some folks would "throw in the towel" and talk of a "break up and start over". Nothing could be sillier than that.

This team has more talented players than did last season's playoff game winning team. The problem on Defense is less one of a talent than it is of underperformance. That can and must be corrected which is up to the players and much as it is to the staff.

It would be hard to suggest that on Offense, the talent at Receiver is not notably better than it has been. And while the absence of Barkley, so far this year as will almost surely be so next year, it is and will be an issue moving ahead, the most pressing of such is at Quarterback.

It will be essential to determine what exactly is Daniel Jones's capability when and if playing behind an Oline which to date has gone from inadequate to disaster. That is the key issue on which all other decisions will hinge. And so for that reason, it can't be hurried, it can't be a product of desperation or surrender. As painful as it may be, it will take most if not all of the season, for Schoen/ Daboll to gather the necessary and indispensable facts. The last thing we should want is for them to start behaving like one of us.

Cheers!

And no Barkley next year, that's for sure. It won't matter how well he plays when he does come back. So, start thinking about finding his successor.

Cheers!

Quote from: brownelvis54 on October 04, 2023, 03:10:14 PMTu peux mettre du rouge à lèvres sur un cochon, mais ça reste un cochon

C'est vrai, Robert. Oink! Oink!

Cheers!

Quote from: bamagiantfan on October 03, 2023, 07:56:27 PMI once said, "this is Greek" to a friend of mine whose parents are from Greece. He said, "Greek I can do, but this, THIS,...... I got nothing."

I think that helplessness is what we all feel.
Is this team good? I still think so.
Are they playing poorly? Certainly.
The only truth is that was game 4 of 17. The Giants are 1-3, Just like the Bengals. The fans of both teams didn't expect this.

Play it out. That's all they can do.

Got it, Mitch and your friend as well. I feel much the same as you. We can knock ourselves out analyzing and criticizing, obsessing and second-guessing, anointing and finger-pointing, bashing and trashing whomever or whatever, and it will be of no matter, of no consequence to what happens in the next 13 games.

As for my use of the word "Stoic" it would be hard to find a word dealt a greater injustice at the hands of the English language. In its rightful place, Stoicism is a tool in the pursuit of self-mastery, perseverance, and wisdom: something one uses to live a great life.

Cheers!

It would be wrong for anyone here to conclude that my well-known and longstanding criticism of "prediction-making" dates back to Ancient Greece when it is even more logically a reflection of my long lifetime as a Giants fan.

It has been a franchise which in the last 75 plus years, except for a mere 5 Championships and a paucity of Playoff appearances, has managed to avoid mediocrity by otherwise stinking.
 
Although what we have witnessed through the first 4 games this season is shocking in its dimension, it is much less so from a historic perspective as disheartening as that may be for all concerned.

Frankly, there is no amount of handwringing, bitching and moaning, or blame gaming, or anything else we might say about it that can or will change that fact going forward. Thus, in terms of both Ancient Greek and present day BBH philosophy I am both Cynic and Stoic.

Cheers?

Peeyew!! 11 of 13 Quarters of crap football. Outscored 70 to 6 in the 1Q

Barf!

Quote from: Bob In PA on October 02, 2023, 10:19:44 AMLarry: I thought departure from my usual rule of decorum was justified (and apt) under the unique set of circumstances. LOL

Understood. Fair enough, Bob.

You don't have to like Tiki to know that he is absolutely right in his critique of the Giants Defense as weak in effort and feckless in tackling.

If it doesn't show up against Geno and S'hawks as did the Jet's D against Mahomes and K.C. yesterday, it might well be the beginning of long and unhappy season.

Cheers!

Valid observation, i.e. criticism of Siriani. Except for the name-calling, not much different from that directed at the Giants players and staff by some folks.

Cheers!