Big Blue Huddle

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Like your list - have many of them on my own - but anything other than 'clean' takes a player off the Giants list in the 1st round.

The last player the Giants took with 'football character' questions was Damontre Moore and he was a massive disappointment. Can't see the uber talented McDowell on our shortlist for that reason. This is the guy who told the assembled media at the Combine that his coaches took a while to adjust to him and whose effort wained as the losses mounted!

We have reverted to hitting for the cycle 'size, athletic ability production and upside'. No need to take chances on athletic traits over football skills or ignoring obvious injury or OTF issues when we're so close to putting a Championship team on the field once again.

Ramczyk and Bolles are less clear cut. Bolles sounds like his life has done a 180 degree spin. Ramczyk I have less of a feel for. We'll doubtless invite them in before a decision is made on them.

Quote from: MP21WAYS2PAY on March 28, 2017, 06:37:02 AM
CO, somehow I missed your post and Bob's respose and wrote the same thing.  We must share the same conspiratorial mindset.

2016
Titans trade up to 8 to take Conklin
Bears trade up to 9 to take Floyd
Giants take Apple at 10

2013
49ers trade up to 18 to take Eric Reid
Giants pick Pugh at 19

2012
Bucs trade up to 31 to take Doug Martin
Giants draft David Wilson at 32

The clearest example here is the Bears, who were at 11, and moved up to 9.  The only reason for them to move up was to get in front of the Giants, therefore, they knew the Giants would select Floyd.  Did they know that because Jerry Reese was drooling on his shoes at Floyds pro day?  I don't know.  But the Bears were convinced enough by something to give up their 4th round pick.  The case of Doug Martin may have been due to Mike Sullivan joining Tampa before the draft and spilling the beans. 

Telegraphing may be as basic as the GM as tracking the GMs visits.  It was well documented that Reese only attends a hand full of pro days, and last year that included Floyds, the year before was Flowers.  It is not unreasonable to expect the Giants realized that gives other teams a clear indication of who the team is targeting, and this year they decided to throw everyone off the scent by feigning interest in another player.

I'm partially in agreement but feel the higher we pick the harder it is to mask our intentions - after all, picking 10th a good guess as to at least 7-8 off the board could be had and some positions we had no needs at thrown out of the remaining equation leaving 2 + 2 = 4 and a bulls-eye drawn around our top targets at positions of priority need. Everyone knew, not just a few of the NFL teams picking after us! It's once both were taken that most draft prognasticators screwed up. I can't remember which but one of Reese/Ross was at Ohio State but not at Florida. We weren't taking VHIII - too short, bottom end of the minimum speed filter for the position, too polished - but people assumed we were looking at someone other than Apple at Ohio State!

This year picking lower it should be harder to pinpoint our interest, though the fact we have fewer priority needs makes it easier to narrow the field by position. Even then with so many channels (NFL .com, NFL Network, various TV personalities and lots of independent websites/writers doing their own mocks) it is virtually impossible for someone not to have already correctly predicted who we will be selecting in the 1st round. Off-hand over the past two months I can think of 4 different OL's, 2 DE's, 2 TE's, a DT and an RB we've been 'linked to'...  and they're all good players (though some don't 'fit' with us)

The presence of Reese travelling around the South at various BBQ stops whilst Ross pops up here there and everywhere is likely to be by design to create subterfuge as to who we are strongly considering for the first pick. I don't think we'd be that obvious again and it may be a case of where they don't go rather than where they do that pinpoints our top 3-4 realistic targets. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks!

What I found interesting is that this year some of the position Coaches have been spotted out there too - Patrick Graham was at Michigan for instance - and there may well have been others in attendance elsewhere, just that people don't necessarily know what they look like so their attendance has gone under the media radar. This time last year they were all hard at work on playbooks and none attended any Pro Days. With a larger number of good players who could realistically end up as our top pick and many Pro Days on the same day we're now getting more 'sighters' in.

NB: I'm not so sure we would have taken Doug Martin. The Giants practically wet themselves in trying to trade up (unsuccessfully) for CJ Spiller the previous year and were infatuated with Wilson for the same reasons. They were clearly wrong on both counts which is why I don't think they will be that interested in taking McCaffrey in the 1st round this year even though I think he's better than either ever looked like they'd be...

I think that first round may be off the table but it's far from off the table on the second day (rounds 2 & 3).

Here's why:

- Rhett Ellison gives us flexibility and blocking.
- He'll undoubtedly catch some balls but he isn't going to be on the field every down or even play every down at TE when he is on the field.
- He'll play FB plenty, perhaps even as much as he plays TE because it allows us to diversify the offense and get away from the proclivity of '11' personnel and signposting play calls.
- Ellison has only caught 51 career passes. We're not talking about a guy who suddenly became the answer to the issues at TE in the passing game just because he changed teams.
- The ONLY guy who should be on the field every down apart from Eli and the OL's is OBJ.
- Adding a down the field weapon in the seam  at TE creates mismatches and will give the WR's more room to operate on crossing routes underneath as well as hold the Safety that split second longer.
- That also means that opponents can't sit in cover two as they did last year knowing neither Tye or Donnell offered much deep.

I guess I won't be winning a prize for guessing who Rich's draft crush is this year!! 

If we take Dawkins hopefully it works out better than the last time a Rich favourite was tabbed. That was DE Owamagbe Odighizuwa and right now we should be drafting to replace him

FWIW I wouldn't rule out Lamp as our 1st round pick. He proved capable of handling Alabama's best players one on one, is very strong, super athletic and his arms are longer than those of perennial Pro Bowler Joe Thomas. Will he pass the Giants filters at Tackle? Possibly not but I get the feeling someone will give him a shot to play there.

Quote from: COGiantFan on March 08, 2017, 02:25:50 PM
Does the acquisition of Marshall lean us a little more on the blocking side for a TE?

Quite probably. I'd also go so far as to say it rules out the acquisition of a top receiving TE. Period. We'll be playing just as much '11' personnel as last year. Just with a top blocking WR and a TE who won't get rag-dolled on every play.

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 07, 2017, 11:45:39 AM
Both of these guys will probably be gone by pick 23.  So you might want to also consider the round two options of

Evan Engram, South Alabama (a UKGiants favorite)

and

Bucky Hodges, Virginia Tech

What makes you think Engram would be available in R2, especially as late as 55? Before the Combine I had him in my top 35.

As for Hodges let me be kind and describe myself as 'not a fan'. His worst traits are a cross between those of Donnell and Tye...

Quote from: todge on March 07, 2017, 03:09:35 PM
Both Engram and Hodges are converted WRs into TEs.  Both of them have limited experience in the blocking department with neither of them having the lower body power base to ever be effective blockers.

Hodges, agreed. Engram? Nope. He doesn't need to block like Howard Cross to be effective. He sticks to his guy pretty good. Plenty of film showing that

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 07, 2017, 04:03:29 PM
Funny, rumor has it the Giants have interest in TE Anthony Fasano

And suddenly Engram at #23 becomes realistic. Put him Fasano, OBJ & Shepard on the field together and '12' personnel becomes '11' (or vice versa) very swiftly. Mismatches everywhere!!

Quote from: Jaime on March 03, 2017, 04:55:55 PM
Ceri,, saw his dad Ed McCaffrey in training camp as a rook with the Giants. I thought he looked good. but didn't he wind up getting cut,?  then went on to a terrific career with the Broncos I think it was?

Nope, he played. Had some injuries and was jettisoned against the wishes of GM George Young as part of Dan Reeves influx of New Jersey Broncos. His replacement? Arthur Marshall. Who? Yeah, I could have cried. Especially when I met Marshall in my hotel over in the Meadowlands and he was smaller than me! McCaffrey went on to a storied career with the 49ers and Broncos.Marshall out of football two uneventful years later

Very impressed with McCaffrey. He's like the ultimate weapon. No matter where you put him you're looking at big play potential and a whole lot of mismatch options in the passing game. He has his Daddy's hands and route running ability 

I can't see either OJ or Njuko making it to 20.

Reminds me of the year Keith Jackson and Johnny Mitchell went very high. Phenomenal athletes get taken early. I can see the pair being trade bait in the top 12!

The problem is every board I use on the simulator has the same result - the top 3 TE's are gone, I just miss out on a DE that fits either and either have to reach for a T or RB. Worrying as all the best players available are DB's or players at positions we need who don't fit our size/schematic needs.

Can't wait to read what you think of Roderick Johnson. You'll have to go to the tape because reviews are so different.

Personally I think he's horrific but he'll look great off the hoof at the Combine

Quote from: Hadron on February 23, 2017, 07:28:19 PM
Yeah, watching Cam Robinson was eerily familiar to watching ole Ereck..

Glad people are seeing him as I do! He's Train-reck's penalty prone, same mistake making long lost brother

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 22, 2017, 10:10:31 AM
WHAT?!?   

How could you not be interested in drafting Flowers 2.0? 

That's EXACTLY who I've been comparing him to for months!! Scary thought having them as bookends!!

Can't see any way that LT Ryan Ramczyk is available at #23 (I'm not a Cam Robinson fan). However trading up 5 spots for him would only cost a 3rd rounder so if JPP is re-signed this becomes a more feasible possibility. Dark horse is LT Antonio Garcia. Forget the 1-on-1 practices at the Senior Bowl, it's different 11-on-11 and he did well in those and the game itself. Unlike Flowers he can move his feet and he doesn't duck his head and get bull rushed back!

I really like Moton as an RT option (and he can play RG too) but he is unlikely to be on my wish-list at #23. Trading back? Add to wish-list

DE Derek Barnett or Taco Charlton (whichever is left). I think Willis is too stiff. Prefer others to him even for R2

Going G is a possibility if we sign a LT in free agency and shift Flowers to RT but the quality likely available in R2 make it a better possibility. I can think of 5 guys I'd draft at RG at #55 and at least 2-3 might be there for us. All offer a good fit!

TE is an obvious need and my liking for Njuko was trumpeted the morning after we went out of the playoffs but there is depth and T/DE are bigger priorities if we have holes there

We can discount WR, C, CB, S and 3/4 edge rushing OLB's altogether.

At ILB there are a couple but it's a two down position in our defense and not worth it.

At OLB I really like the Temple kid who plays everywhere but with a healthy Kennard there isn't  a natural post for him to start

At DT McDowell intrigues but I don't see a natural fit next to Snacks. The guys I like as a fit don't look like first rounder's to me pre-Combine

Dark horse is RB. Seriously! If Leonard Fournette was to drop I'd grab him in a heartbeat. Not as sure about Dalvin Cook. Dark horse? McCaffrey but only as a last resort. All have the speed and offer the explosive long distance threats that Perkins doesn't

I'd sooner have Penn State WR Chris Godwin. But he'll go at least two rounds higher than I'd ideally want to draft a WR this year