Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: JT39 on October 01, 2023, 01:58:51 PMChargers have great weapons that blow ours away. It's not even close.

You really overrated our skilled players. And last time I checked the chargers have 1 win.

You continue to move the goal post; first, it was NO team/QB could be successful without thier star offensive players. When you were proven incorrect, you simply changed the narrative....

Quote from: JT39 on October 01, 2023, 08:58:11 AMMeh. Who cares Thomas is out. He's replaceable, right?

Do you consider every injury in a vacuum?  Thomas' injury is important; however, it's lessened this week as a byproduct of the Giants playing a team with limited pass-rushers. To that end, Thomas' replacement will be matched against a player with similar skill-sets; thus, it's not as detrimental as other weeks...this may be the best week to absorb said injury. Fortunately, thr Giants are not playing the Cowboys and M. Parsons...that would be a significant blow.  It's a fairly simple concept...

Quote from: Giantleap56 on September 27, 2023, 08:27:42 AMThe other teams are playing tackle football and the Giants are playing two hand touch. You know how many plays I have seen the other defense give the Giants extra business during the tackle. They are literally trying to tear the ball away from the Giants players. I hate to say it but one thing in football that no one wants to be know as is "Soft".

Who would you identify as a tough-guy on the current Giants team?  In the past, we had Keith "Hammer" Hamilton, Rich Suebert, LT, etc...  We simply don't have that type of mentality on either side of the ball. 

Quote from: GloryDays on September 22, 2023, 04:38:20 PMI know the team had other issues Thursday night against the niners, bad tackling, missed opportunities, penalties ... but until the middle of the 4th quarter, this team still managed to come as close as one score.

So my question is, can we mainly blame the O line and their inabilities as a group to semi-consistently provide decent time for DJ to throw, and a little better blocking for the running game?

No!  The 9ers are better across the board.

Quote from: killarich on September 22, 2023, 04:21:06 PMGeno Smith was a career journeyman ... suddenly in his 30's he had a pro bowl season .....

IDK why anyone is so quick to give up on someone like Simmons it makes absolutely zero sense

Like you said ... maybe a different scenery is needed

I suggest you go back and look again.  Geno only started 20 something games before the Jets pulled the plug.  In subsequent starts after his 2d season, including his start with us, he played well.  It takes at least two full seasons to know what you have at QB...he wasn't given that luxury.  Besides, this is a massive fallacy; in short, you're focusing on one player to support your narrative, while simultaneously ignoring the literal thousands of examples that suggest such ascensions are rare. 

Quote from: killarich on September 22, 2023, 04:19:37 PMKennard became better after he left

And no one is asking Simmons to be elite... all im saying is give him a chance

No he didn't...he got more playing time playing on the NFLs worst def...that's not the same as getting better.  His 16 games stats were remarkably the same.  Besides, Det only won 8 games in the two years while he was there.  Btw, if he improved so much, why did he only last 2 years in Det?  They cut him before his contract expired. You're having a hard time finding a tangible example because they're rare...like less than 1% rare.  Fans believe system and/or coaching changes can fundamentally alter a veteran player's trajectory, but that's incredibly rare in the modern NFL. Consider our Giants, in the last decade, what veteran player proved to be materially better after we signed and/or traded for them?  I honestly can't think of a single example, but could be overlooking someone.  Regardless, in the modern NFL, it's rare. 

Again, no objections to Simmons playing more. Who do you pull to give him more playing time?  That's lingering question I have. 

Quote from: LennG on September 22, 2023, 02:56:35 PMGive him the Ian Allen award for best imitation of a turnstile to the QB.

Lenny, I actually think that's an insult to Ian Allen. As bad as he was, Shame is worse...much worse. 

Quote from: killarich on September 22, 2023, 10:27:02 AMI dont see how we can just give up on Simmons being a possible playmaker for us

If you think Flowers is a bad example

How about BJ Hill and Devon Kennard ?

Both were similar to Simmons in which they were just ehh starters or shown flashes ...go to new teams and look good ...

Difference is Simmons was obviously in a bad situation and misused

Its 3 games into the season ... I dont understand the negativity towards at least giving him a shot at a higher playcount

BJ Hill and Kennard evolved into playmakers/difference-makers?  That's news to me...

Both were good players while they were here and remained good players after they left.  I don't know if you recall, but the majority of this board was peeved when the Giants traded Hill for a failed 1st round center, who also failed to magically become better with a team change.  Like most transactions under DG tenure, it was a terrible trade. 

I highly suspect Simmons will continue to be the same player he was in Az; just like 99% of all players entering their 4th seasons.  He'll flash here and there, but I would not count on him to significantly alter our aggregate defense.  He's doesn't have those skillsets; again, there's a reason a team desperate for young talent let him walk.  Equally, there's a reason a team was only willing to part with a 7th round pick to secure his services; that pick is completely inconsequential as >80% of 7th round picks are out of the league in less than 2-years. 

The Giants acquired him to be a situational role player, not the cornerstone of our def.  I don't object to him playing more, I just don't believe it will make a materiel difference.  Finally, his size makes him a difficult player to fill a specific position.  So, who's playing time would you curtail to insert Simmons? 

Quote from: T200 on September 22, 2023, 02:39:48 PMThey need to recalculate the weight of missed tackles. He's credited with 9 solo tackles, 4 for a loss. One of the few defensive bright spots last night.

Also, not all missed tackles are equal.  I could miss a tackle that results in a 1 yard gain, or miss a tackle for a 99 yard gain.  Both shouldn't be considered equal as a player may have the cognitive whereabouts to know when to gamble for a TO opportunity, vice when a sure tackle is needed.   

We need a rating lower than Goat to accurately capture Shane L performance.  Is ass-clown acceptable? 

Quote from: T200 on September 22, 2023, 09:46:06 AMI agree that they are limiting his snaps, obviously. But I don't think we can make the correlation that they don't think he isn't a playmaker.

On the difference between winning and losing, I don't think the Giants defense is one player away. They need all the help they can get. They brought him... they need to use him.

I'm confused, Tim. You think the Giants would elect to keep a playmaker on the bench?  Can I ask why? 

Quote from: killarich on September 22, 2023, 09:36:32 AMThey literally traded for him right before the season started, new playbook, no training camp... what like 3 snaps in preseason ?

We cant say that about Simmons without looking at players like Hyatt and Wandale... its a break in period obviously

Some of just feel he should be broken in even more

And we cant base everything off his old team

Dolphins turned flowers into a decent Guard... after being an atrocious Tackle with the Giants

Sometimes the grass is actually greener

Your example proves my point...Flowers was not a descent Guard.  He was the exact same player he was in NY, just moved to a new position to attempt to hide his warts.  Still, he struggled and lasted in Mia for a single season.  Decent guards don't play for 5 teams and out of football in 7 years. At best, he was a JAG...same as he was in NY. I suspect Simmons will follow the same trajectory, just like 99% of veterans entering their 5th year. 

Quote from: T200 on September 22, 2023, 09:04:20 AMThen why have any of them take the field if we aren't counting on them to make plays? I don't get it 

Isn't that the point?  From his snap count, the Giants are keeping him on the sideline.  So, clearly, they don't view him as a 'playmaker' either.  What I don't understand is why we think Simmons is a playmaker, when his prior and current team clearly don't.  He was brought in to be a situational player...he's fulfilling that role. There was a good reason we got him for a 7th round pick.

Do we think playing Simmons more would improve our defense?  I do not; fundamentally, our biggest problems are stopping the run and generating pressure.  Simmons is certainly not going to help with the former and has limited success with the latter over 4 seasons.  He's not going to make the difference between winning and loosing.

Quote from: T200 on September 22, 2023, 08:53:48 AMYou're focused on a label, which you yourself introduced into the conversation to diminish what Simmons can do for this defense. No one said he was special. You injected that he wasn't. It doesn't matter if he is or isn't. It doesn't matter if another team doesn't game plan specifically for him.

What matters is whether he can make plays when he's on the field for the Giants. Does he?

That's fair, Tim; I should swap special with 'playmaker.'  Simmons, by any definition, is not a playmaker.  He's vastly overrated by Giant fans based on his prior draft status.  I saw the same thing with J Peppers.  I'm not even sure I would classify Simmons as 'good', let alone a playmaker.  If we're counting on him to be a significant difference-maker, we're in real trouble.

Quote from: T200 on September 22, 2023, 08:33:22 AMSimmons wasn't special to the Cards.

Look at our defensive roster. Who are the most talented players on defense? Simmons is easily top 5, if not top 3. So, in relation to this Giants defense, he's special. He's the most versatile defender we have right now. They need to have him on the field.

Tim,

That's like saying Bridea is special because he's the Giants 2d best rb.  The Giants don't play against each other; so, I humbly suggest players should be compared against their aggregate contemporaries, not their relative standing on their team. In short, I don't think a single DC is  planning to defend against Simmons, which negates the 'special' qualifier.