Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 03:05:40 PMYou should factor them in because you are citing stats generated with their play.  The 70+ guys account for less than 31% of the receiving snaps.  It explain why PFF grades appear better than the WAR

No I'm not. You're trying to use this data to perpetuate the narrative DJ is doing this himself. However, the entity who complied the data you're presenting, also states 3 or DJs current 5 starting skill position players are above average. In order for the WAR to work, we have to include players injured several weeks ago, or have been active for limited games.  You don't see a problem with any of this?  At best, the WAR tells us he stated with substandard help, but it's vastly improved over the last 5 weeks.  It also tells us the Giants aren't a deeply talented team., which we already know. What it doesn't say iss DJ starting WRs are terrible; in fact, PFF. and NGS state the opposite.  So, if you're asking people to accept the validity of the WAR, than you must also accept the validity of PFF wr rankings. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 02:11:40 PMWhy are you ignoring all the receivers with grades in the 50s and 60s?  Also, why ignore the TE and RB receiving grades?

I'm not, but these WRs are no longer starting. I'm focused on the current starters.  There are few teams that have 5x 70+ players at all 5 eligible receiver positions.  What this tells me is he's stating skill position players are better than average, and those who were injured or not starting are well below average. Why would you factor guys like Sills, KG, and Johnson when they haven't been on the active roster for weeks? 

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 02:03:33 PMI think the issue is too much focus on current WRs and not the entire receiving group through the season

Players- receiving snaps - PFF receiving grade

Shepard- 108 60.1
James- 340 68.2
Johnson- 158 50.7
Sills- 138 59.8
Slayton- 398 71.7
Robinson- 140 70.9
Golladay- 117 50.3
Hodgins- 248 75.4

Myarick- 177 61.6
Bellinger- 267 58.6
Vannett- 53 52.1
Cager- 73 50.5
Hudson- 140 59.8

Brightwell- 31 71.4
Breida- 41 56.6
Barkley- 248 58.4

70s are good; DJ currently has a 74. So, he had 3 good WRs, yet terrible WAR. Something doesn't compute.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 28, 2022, 01:02:59 PMTo be retained at 30 million, because that's what it'll take to resign him. So you're paying Jones 30 million a year content with the production he has now?

You would have to project his production with better WRs.  Given what we know about the impact of tier 1 WRs on veteran QBs in their prime, I don't believe the projected production increase equates to $30M/yr.  However, I also recognize we're unlikely to find a #15 or better QB this year. So. franchise him, draft a wr #1 or 2 and reevaluate next season. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 28, 2022, 12:22:58 PMJones has the second worst contribution of WAR from his supporting cast of any QB in the NFL, yet he is one game away from making the playoffs.  I am not sure how anyone can say that isn't good enough

The same creator of the WAR have also assigned solid individual ratings to our WRs . So, something seems off, or at least very inconsistent. 

No disagreement on Slayton; his hands are the reason he was drafted in the 5th round.  He is what he is.   

Quote from: GMenRF on December 27, 2022, 08:57:01 PMI was saying that it was bad throw by DJ and yes it was behind Hodgins.  He did not lead the WR with that ball.

The point I was making is if it was a more faster WR the coverage would not have been as tight as it was.  Imagine Slayton instead running that route vs an aging Peterson.  Slayton's speed alone would be enough to create separation and at the very least not allow the CB make a play on that ball.

That doesn't make any sense as the ball was considerably behind him.  Having a faster WR won't improve the QB accuracy.  Consider the critical 4th dorm against the cowboys, Barkley had his man beat by a mile and DJ put the ball behind him and at his feat. 

As I said on draft night, I was down on the field during SD walk through...the man has the softest hands I've seen/heard.  There's no thud, there's almost no sound at all.  He's a good blocker; although, he doesn't have much twitch.  I loved the pick that evening and I still love it now.  He just needs more opportunities. 

Quote from: MightyGiants on December 27, 2022, 06:44:30 PM

PFF say something differently; the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. 

Quote from: AP44 on December 27, 2022, 06:00:15 PMWas off chemo for 6 weeks. Didn't get good news on my last scans so the doctor put me back on it. Been a struggle but meaningful Giants football and discussion is a plus. But overall the tumors are smaller than when first diagnosed so I am still on the good side. The cold weather - let me tell - it f'n blows though lol.

Ironically, the wife and I escaped the cold by visiting my parents and our oldest in Maine for the holidays. It was 60 degrees warmer here than Co.  However, no we're stuck as we're 'victims' of the airlines. 

Quote from: AP44 on December 27, 2022, 05:56:28 PMI'm getting chemo as we speak. I have some time on my hands.

I hope it's successful, and you don't endure the side effects. 

Quote from: AP44 on December 27, 2022, 05:54:49 PMI'll do better. Gotta go rewatch the game...

I envy anyone who has that amount of free time.

Quote from: AP44 on December 27, 2022, 05:39:37 PMUncalled for post. Should be reported.

The irony is rich.  If you feel it's reportable, report it and let the mods to their jobs.

It's not a big deal. It's a snarky comment, nothing more. 

Quote from: Jclayton92 on December 27, 2022, 04:18:30 PMIsn't that Jones though? An average QB In a run first offense. That sums him up perfectly as Tannehill is the Jones ceiling comp for most fans and pundits alike.

It's also not true.  Tannehill last two years in Mia were actually pretty good.  He also put up an MVP type season a few years ago. He's not average, he's good. The problem is, good is no longer good enough.

The data suggest an elite wr can help a QB on a rookie contract, playing less than 30 games, or an older QB playing his his twilight years. They have little impact on QBs in their prime.