Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: zephirus on October 09, 2023, 05:15:11 PMI've said it before but it continues to be ignored.  Daniel Jones will be on this roster in 2024.  Period.  End of story.  The cap implications associated with cutting him prior to the end of next season are massive. 

That doesn't mean you can't draft another quarterback, and start them immediately.  You'd just have the most expensive backup ever.  Given the way these things tend to go, please make peace with the fact that Daniel Jones will be a Giant next year, and very likely be the starter.  If the Giants are convinced that he's not the way to go, they can move on after 2024 and draft his successor. 

Given the multitude of deficient positions on the Giants, I would think trading down and/or getting future picks is the prudent move.  You can augment the team around Jones for 2024 and roll the dice again.  If you crap out again, at least now you're in a cap position that allows you to cut him relatively painlessly while still putting valuable pieces into the team prior to the next QBs arrival.

I don't think I've seen one person suggest that drafting a QB would mean Daniel Jones wouldn't be a Giant in 2024.  It would mean as you said either to start the season or at some point would be an expensive back up QB for the Giants in 2024. 

If Schoen/Daboll decide to augment the team around Jones in 2024 even if they have a Top 5 pick then they may not get a chance to draft a QB in 2025.  That might end up being the decision of a new regime.

Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 05:14:20 PMI answered it twice. You just didn't like my answer. That's a you problem.

If you did you would have picked one or the other as being the better performance.  Instead you choose to deflect why you couldn't answer.  That's fine but don't lie and take personal shots at me.

Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 05:08:52 PMWell like I said previously - I don't look at stats to say whose better. You might, but it's a more of an amateur way to look at things.

You can't make judgements comparing players if you don't watch one play. Plus you're not even throwing in variables that you continually dismiss - so why bother asking.

How about we say this - Jones is the worst QB in the league and everyone plays better than him... so you don't have to ruin every thread?

Can't say I didn't try to have a civil conversation when I ask a simple question that you can't answer to show how flawed PFF's grades are and why I've been critical of their grades for a while using them as fact as some have done and continue to do.

Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 05:02:09 PMI didn't watch Lawrence play. So how could I? Just speculate on stats? Watching 45 seconds of highlights isn't the way I like to grade out players. Maybe you do, but I tend to look at bigger things than just stats.

That wasn't the question.  The question was which performance do you value more and believe is worthy of being graded as the better performance the 14-20 119 0 TD 0 INT game or the 25-37 315 1 TD 0 INT but 2 fumbles game?

Again take away the names and just look at it on the surface.

Think it's too soon for them to flex next week's game and I don't think the Monday night game against the Packers can be flexed (unless I'm wrong and that's changed).

Quote from: EDjohnst1981 on October 09, 2023, 04:30:51 PMI think it's the weapons.

Weapons definitely make a difference when there's that much speed

Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 04:46:52 PMI'll do that once you stop blaming Jones for everything. I won't hold my breath... trust me.

And a reminder - you said Lawrence was an elite QB like Mahomes - so I'll take your evaluation with a huge grain of salt... lol

As I expected you didn't answer the question of what performance you would value more and believe is the better game.  Tells me everything when it comes to your ability to have an honest civil conversation.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 04:23:45 PMThis is factually false.  I post the grades every week, good or bad.  It's also factually true you only criticize PFF if they give Jones a good grade

Actually I've been critical of PFF for a while so I ask again that you please stop making up things about myself that aren't true.

Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 04:27:15 PMBoth of Lawrence's turnovers cost them opportunities at points - so he was probably docked majorly for that. He also made a throws with a. Clean pocket and wide open WRs - so he probably didn't give as much credit as you think.

What you will always fail to understand is when a QB is pressured (Jones is on pace to be the most pressured QB ever) - plays are disrupted, you can't go through progrsssions, you can't let your WRs finish routes.

And I know you're a big proponent of just throwing it up even if he hasn't finished his drop or WRs haven't finished their route. I am sure you're all for throwing to WRs who are even looking for the ball too.

You absolutely have a one track mind at this point. Any thread not dedicated to Jones - you make it a Jones thread. It's really tough to have civil discussion about the team at this point. I am not trying to be mean or not telling you not to post - but every single post in every single thread is about Jones, Jones, Jones. We get it already.

Again Lawrence threw for over 300 yards and a TD.  Even with those 2 turnovers how is he rated lesser than a QB who had a bit over 100 yards who had 4 attempts over 10 yards?  Do you believe that a 120 yard 0 TD 0 turnover passing game is more valuable than a 300 yard 1 TD but two fumbles performance?

Take the names Lawrence and Daniel Jones out of the picture which I understand might be difficult for you.

Quote from: JT39 on October 09, 2023, 04:14:09 PMOr maybe Jones didn't play as poor as you think. Maybe those deep shots to Waller were viewed as catchable passes that Waller didn't get the job done.

Maybe they see what 99.9% of the world sees that the OL is so bad - no one can play effectively with it.

Or maybe they value a conservative performance where there are 4 out of 19 passes attempted over 10 yards over a QB who throws for over 300 yards and a TD but fumbles twice?

BTW this is more about Trevor Lawrence's performance being rated lower than Jones's performance by PFF yesterday which is insane and shows how flawed PFF's grading system is.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 04:17:23 PMTrue you and @Rambo89

And yourself. 

Wanna know why I don't take PFF grades seriously?  How about this:

Week 5 Grades:

Daniel Jones: 87.1

Trevor Lawrence: 84.1

PFF believes that Lawrence's 2 fumbles recovered by Buffalo made him less valuable than Jones despite Lawrence throwing for over 300 yards and a TD when Jones barely threw for over 100 yards.

Quote from: babywhales on October 09, 2023, 03:38:29 PMBrown was in a much better situation and simply could not produce.

First of all, Brown started on bench for 2 seasons behind Hos and then Simms.

Brown had some very good Mike Nolan defenses and also benefited from an much better running game.

Brown was a deer in headlights and the problem with the offense.

Back then even the defensive players had turned on Brown and knew he was the problem.


1992 Bench                        Defense #26    Running Game #1       
1993 Bench                        Defense #1      Running game # 10
1994 Starter                       Defense # 8    Running Game #10
1995 Starter                       Defense #16   Running Game #13
1996 Starter                       Defense #10   Running game # 24
1997 Benched for Kennel     Defense # 4   Running game # 7

The argument wasn't who was better or worse as a player.  It's been clear and still clear Jones is a better player than Brown ever was.  The argument and topic is which QB took more heat and the answer should be Brown for those of us who were around for both.

Quote from: GMenRF on October 09, 2023, 03:14:52 PMThe things is the Jones haters would be the first ones to throw a block party when we draft a new QB next season.  The problem is with the line being trash the way it is, we are on the same road of screwing the development of that kid.

Fans here don't realize how tough DJ is with his size and build.  Now you put a smaller QB in there in this trash of an oline and that kid will be on the IR by week 5.

On a side note, why TF is Bobby Johnson still a coach for this team.  You figure given how bad this oline is on epic proportions he would have been given the pink slip already.

The simple assignment of picking up a twist looks like advance calculus for our guys.

Labeling people on here critical of Daniel Jones as being "haters" is not only inaccurate it's also insulting to suggest that we hate and are rooting against him.  And BTW no one who has been critical of Jones has criticized his toughness or professionalism.  But keep running with that false narrative if it makes you feel better.

Quote from: Philosophers on October 09, 2023, 02:36:10 PMIt could be but as I said, BPA (what you wrote obviously needs to be taken seriously into account).  I just don't understand how clearly the worst unit should be ignored as fixing OL improves team more than any other unit.

Again I am not ignoring it.  I am looking at other ways to address it rather than the same way that has led to similar results.

This isn't good.  Sounds like we may not see Thomas for a while. 

https://twitter.com/rydunleavy/status/1711431286311510411?s=61

A follow up to this video from Saquan's perspective. 

https://twitter.com/saquon/status/1711211811616211231?s=61