Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Painter on November 19, 2023, 04:41:25 PMI can only speak for myself, but the idea that I would I root for the Giants to lose a game for any reason is abhorrent to me. And while it may have taken 6 Washington TOs to ensure that it didn't happen again today, there was never a moment from KO to Tweeweeweet that I wasn't rooting like hell for the G-men. 

Cheers!

Quote from: Dumpster Dan on November 19, 2023, 04:51:24 PMPainter

You and I cant help it--we are too damn old to have it any other way

Two of the grandsons called me--The Giants win!!!!!   The Giants win!!!!  How great did that make me feel!!!!!

I dont give a damn about draft position right now

Dumpster Dan

Gents, this one kept us on the edge of our respective seats all day and had the perfect ending.

Hoping it won't be the last before the season ends. It's almost always a good week ahead when the Giants start it with a "W."

Peace!

Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 17, 2023, 01:13:38 PMBut that is searching for the effect while ignoring the cause.  Another possibility, is it a ten or more year history of disproportionate injuries?  I also think it is a little self-serving, even passive aggressive for Lombardi to limit the scrutiny to things that he, as an executive, wasn't included.  Those players didn't just materialize, someone picked them.  Same for the coaches.  And really, scheme is just a corolary to coaching.

<B>It's like asking, why is a widget company having problems, is it the employees, is it the assembly line, is it the employee benefits package.</B>

If the individual asking the question is a performance consultant, the last thing they'll assist whether this or that is the root cause. The first thing they will do is ask questions in order to define and describe the problem.

Next, they will attempt to find the root cause through exploration of the problem statement through a series of factors or attributes related to the problem.

I've discussed using an Ishikawa, or Fishbone Diagram, to depict this causal relationship.

The Giants have multiple direct causes contributing to their lack of success this season. Many have been identified here already. Analysis on some of these causes might yield long-term trends which may support the case for being the root cause.

This is where Schoen and Daboll's analytics team can add value to the Giants' organization and define Key Performance Parameters (KPP) which tie in measures requiring performance improvement plans. But the key is ensuring you have corre tly identified the root cause of your performance inhibitors.

Peace!

My boy McFadden does it again!

Quote from: Giant Jim on November 18, 2023, 04:07:39 PMPete Rozelle did not force George Young on the Giants. Rozelle reluctantly got involved after being persuaded by Art Model and Art Rooney. After Rozelle got Wellington to allow the next GM to work without his interference, the first 2 names Rozelle suggested turned down interviews. George Young was the 3rd name. There weren't many candidates left in February 1979. The most important thing Rozelle did was getting Wellington to agree to step back.

That was the biggest step of all (i.e. letting Young build the front office and run the show as it needed to be run).

Getting both sides to agree to Young was Rozelle's significant accomplishment as arbitrator between Timothy J. Mara (i.e. the late Jack Mara's son) and Wellington Mara. The former wanted George Allen while the latter wanted Jan Van Duser from the NFL League Offices. Ultimately, Young became their man and the saga drew to a close. But the damage had been done and the two owners never spoke to each other. They used Young as a go-between. To Young's credit, he made the arrangement work without letting it impact the football operation and, over the course of the next 11 seasons, the Giants won their first two Super Bowls under Bill Parcells. By then, Timothy, along with his mom and sister, were ready to sell their half of ownership and did so to Preston Robert Tisch in 1991. He moved to Florida and invested his time in charitable events before Hodgkins Disease claimed his life in 1995.

It is unclear if Wellington and Timothy attempted to rekindle their relationship after the latter sold his part. Some sources suggest they got together, talked about the old days of football, both the good and the bad. Following Timothy's passing, Wellington went to pay his respects but did not answer any questions regarding their past and simply asked that they respect this private family matter. In the end, Mara loyalty never swayed; once a Giant, always a Giant.

Peace!

Quote from: Jaime on November 18, 2023, 10:37:03 PMFor some unkown reason the MSG feed wasn't avail tonite
I had to listen to some squeaky voiced play by play guy, and Ken Dynako ( who I respect for his playing style and his no-frills broadcasting).
In a nutshell 2-2 in the 1st, Shesty visibly rusty.  He shook that off. Plenty of  hard hitting 2nd with both Goalies standing on their head. No scoring.
enter 3rd tied, Devs score 5 mins in. More end to end hockey, with big hits and big stops. Then (been watching NHL for 55 years and never saw this) a Faceoff to the left of their Goalie. Typical scrum, the Puck moves two feet and lays there, nobody touches the Puck.  Then Bread swoops in and buries a forehand wrist shot on the short side over the Goalie's glove hand.  Oh baby!!!

A few mins. later a scramble in front of the Devs Goal, a weird rebound Has Jimy Vesey collect a rebound, spin around and throw a lazy backhand into an open Net for the Game Winner. Two mins remained, Devs pull their Goalie, oops. An empty netter seals the deal.  We score three unanswered Goals in the 3rd. With the Devils feed, I got to watch our former Assistant Coach Lindy Ruff's presser. He was really a bit emotionally shook up, and after a couple of questions, he said thankyou, and abruptly walked away from the podium.. Our come from behind Win, sure took the wind out of his sails. We play the Devs three more times this season.

Bread deserves his own paragraph for this highlight. Two goals and a helper has allowed him to break Rod Gilbert's record that has stood since 1973, for the most games in a row with  Points  to start the Season.

The ESPN+ stream had Sam and Joe and both were in great form after the long break.

After Igor shook off the rust, in the first period, he made a mountain of outstanding saves. Both goalies were outstanding, in fact, all game.

Jack had a decent game in returning for the Devils; however, Igor and the Rangers' D kept him from becoming a menace all game long. The Devils were missing a few other big names in their lineup but in no way does that diminish the Rangers' accomplishment last night.

But Panarin's freak goal, to tie the game at three, completely took the momentum from the Devils and gave the Rangers the shot in the arm they needed to take the game over. Up to that point, the 3-2 Devils' lead was playing out like games three or four of last season's playoff round between the two teams. The Bread Man's magical goal, however, was the tide turner they needed so bad last season that they didn't get. But he did last night to move past the "Greatest Ranger of Them All" to score in each of the opening 15 games this season.

Lots of Rangers fans in Newark last in their building to make it feel like home. I always love it when our team invades enemy territory and steals their building to make it our own. I may try to do that when the boys come out here to play the Coyotes the day after my birthday in late March.

10-0-1 in their last 11, with division leading Dallas Stars up next, the challenge to keep pace with Boston continues.

Peace!

Thank you, Lenn.

I strongly recommend the History Channel documentary, "Lincoln," the next time it is scheduled to appear or, if you purchased their streaming service, "History Vault," which I have, you can watch it on demand. It sets the stage for the Gettysburg Address in such a solemn moment which shows President Lincoln beginning to win over a country who has largely questioned his leadership up til that point in his presidency.

Peace!

While it is irrelevant to this discussion, I will never forget the day Phil Simms was released. Not only was I overwhelmed with the fact that Simms' career with the Giants was suddenly over, but I was further stunned by the words of the late Wellington Mara.

Mara Overwhelmed Too

The above is the extreme; however, does anyone here really believe that John Mara, who bore witness to everything that took place in Giants Stadium on June 16, 1994, would jump out of line from what his father did to meddle with a serious decision made by the General Manager? I mean, Mr. Mara went on record to say he disagreed with Young's decision; however, he would support it.

I, for one, do not believe Mara's decision to fire Reese and McAdoo in 2017, following the benching of Manning, and the public humiliation which followed after, counts as jumping out of line from the above:

Giants Fire Coach Ben McAdoo and General Manager Jerry Reese

Ever since the great Tom Coughlin stepped away from the Giants' organization in 2015, the Giants have bumbled and stumbled so much that John Mara has been soft-shoeing it in an attempt to convince fans he's trying to get it fixed. His first attempt with Reese and McAdoo - strike one. His next attempt with Gettleman and Shurmur - strike 2A. The next attempt with Gettleman and Joe Judge - strike 2B. His latest attempt with Schoen and Daboll - the jury is still out. Lesson learned - got to give them more than just two years to turn it around. Knows about penthouse to the outhouse, but does he know the reverse apart from rise up year one, back to the abyss year two?

Mara is remaining mum at this moment which is the right answer. The head coach and GM are saying the right things. In the end, the ultimate gauge, win or loss, is whether the players play hard for the coach. Even in spite of the final score, last week, that Jersey kid, DeVito, marched them down the field for the final points of the game and, to me, that spoke wonders that there's still fight in this team even if they are overmatched at this point.

So, I agree that the conspiracy-mongering is a pile of nonsense and it's time to take the NY-NJ toughness, many of us were born with, and suck it up and deal with the setback of this season until the team is able to hit the restart button and make the decisions it needs to make in order to move on and, hopefully, move forward.

Without 1978, there wouldn't have been a George Young, Ray Perkins or Phil Simms.

Without 1980, there wouldn't have been a Lawrence Taylor.

Without Joe Danelo hitting the upright in overtime in the 1981 season finale against Dallas, he'd never get the opportunity to leap into Scott Brunner's arms after converting a second game winning attempt following Byron Hunt's interception of Danny White, and the Giants ending the 18-Year Rebuilding Plan with their admission into the NFC Wild Card Playoff Round.

Without 1982, there wouldn't have been a Bill Parcells as Head Coach.

Without 1983, there wouldn't have been a Carl Banks (or possibly William Roberts).

Without 1984, there wouldn't have been second chances for both Bill Parcells and Phil Simms, along with a magnificent defense in the making, to help the Giants rise like a Phoenix from the ashes, into a title contender.

Without Sean Landeta's infamous "Ole Miss" in Soldier Field, Chicago, to punctuate a frustrating Divisional Playoff loss to the Bears in 1985, he never would have gotten the chance to redeem himself a year later in his wind-swept Giants Stadium with, arguably, the greatest punt ever in the old Giants Stadium by launching a boomer through the wind and landing it on the Redskins' five-yard line to set the defense up for the kill and the 17-0 NFC Championship victory.

Without the pain and suffering from that one play in 1978, the moment which came to underscore the futility of this organization like no other, with us stunned as Herman Edwards jumped for joy in the end zone as the entire Eagle bench cleared to join him there, without that moment, the nadir of this experience we have as Giants fans, in no way possible could we have felt the infinite joy and ecstacy when the clock hit 0:00 in Pasadena, CA on January 25, 1987, Bill Parcells being lifted onto the shoulders of his "Suburbanities," while John Madden proclaimed, "This is as good as it gets; it doesn't get any better than this; and the best part, it lasts forever." We can romanticize the whole thing now, because that moment in Super Bowl XXI made going through all the despair and seeming hopelessness all worth it in the end. Some way, somehow, I hope Schoen and Daboll will get that opportunity to experience the same thing. So, let them pay their dues today. I'll be there on Sunday moaning and groaning with the rest of you; however, we'll all be there, some day, somehow, when it all translates into something worth going through all of this when it's all said and done. We can look back and laugh at the days of conspiracies while embracing our champions.

Admittedly, it is a far-off dream today. But not any further than the darkest of all days on November 19th, 1978, when a game already won was handed to the Iggles in the most perverse method known to the sport. They eventually found their way to lifting Parcells in Pasadena. Why can't they find their way to lifting Daboll as well?

Keeping the fires burning until the day ...

Peace!

Quote from: Giant Obsession on November 16, 2023, 11:40:44 PMThe Jaguars.  My youngest nephew a big Jags fan told me.

It has to be one of the two expansion teams of 1995. I thought I remember Carolina playing Dallas a few years ago, so .... I'm on board with you that it would have to be Jacksonville.

Peace!

Quote from: andrew_nyGiants on November 14, 2023, 04:41:27 PM100% Rich.

We're supposed to have top quality talent evaluators and in fact they've hit on many players in different positions over the past 2 drafts.

So how is Neal such a GIGANTIC miss?!

My answer is the OL Coach as I'm sure 1) position coaches evaluation of draft talent is strongly considered and <B>2) if they're drafted that high there needs to be a business plan showing an ROI for the team...who is heavily involved in building the plan? The position coach.</B>

We need a much better OL Coach. If we did, we may be able to function with the talent on the roster....especially if we find a QB with pocket awareness and playmaking ability.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I couldn't agree more with you, Andrew, on the investment vs. ROI perspective because we're talking about pick #7 in the draft to address a critical need. OK, with the pick, you've addressed the need, but you don't have the strategy, business objectives or the right staff to execute to those objectives and strategies??? Really?

I believe the boss over Football Operations had better take an honest assessment of the situation or, if that's not possible, then bring in an independent assessment team to tell him, objectively, with no bias, here's where you're not getting it, and here's some recommendations on how you can approach the situation to address it.

Schoen has invested a lot of blood, sweat and tears, as has Daboll at this point, and there's no doubt they've developed bias around their product, to some degree, at this point. So, maybe an independent assessment might be just the thing they both need at this point to gauge what's going well, what's not that should be scrapped and what can be a good thing if modified with an action plan. Something like that can help vector them back on track and, most important, rebuild confidence in what they are doing.

We are millions of voices telling them what to do. I'm glad I'm not them having to hear all of our opinions, including mine, whether they make sense or not.

Peace!

I like Barkley as a player as well as a person.

Having said that, referring back to the missed 4th and two (2) run, it makes me long for the days of having a Brandon Jacobs on the team again. Who can forget the 2007 Divisional Playoff when, near the goal line, the whole Texas Stadium knew Brandon was getting the ball and the Cowboys weren't stopping him. The big guy plowed over them for the winning points then smashed the play clock with the football, taking out a few lights while the entire Chicken Fried Nation (to borrow Mr. Larry's great descriptor of them) gasped then went silent.

Granted, with the offensive line in its current condition, a Jacobs might not get that two yards either. But he sure got the yards when they counted most (see Super Bowl XLII final drive).

Fix the damn line, once and for all! Get the best coaching in the land, the best talent without constraining your salary cap and figure out what your philosophy on offense is going to be, Coach Daboll. Then, figure out your QB situation and find yourself a Brandon Jacobs clone!

Peace!

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 14, 2023, 12:14:48 PMI agree wholeheartedly with MadBadger. As long as the owner has opinions and expresses them openly, he is going to have some element of influence, whether intentional or not. Some GMs will resist it better than others. But that influence is going to be there. It's human nature.

Forget about players for a minute. What do you think Mara's response would be if Joe Schoen said in an internal high level staff meeting that he had decided that it was time to move on from Ronnie Barnes. Would Mara just say "ok, no problem, great, go ahead and do that, what is the next item of business?"

I get that there is a difference between Ronnie Barnes and a player. But it's still a NY Football Giants personnel decision that directly impacts what happens on the field. And it's a situation where emotions are involved. Unless one thinks that the GM has carte blanche to fire Ronnie Barnes tomorrow, it's kind of hard to buy the idea that any GM faces ZERO meddling from Mara - intentional or unintentional - on player decisions. That just doesn't add up. It may be totally unintentional, but it's definitely there given that Mara has clear opinions and airs them regularly.

Not to get into any debate, but to ask a serious question, take a look at the Giants Front Office Roster and tell me is Ronnie Barnes' organization is a subordinate to Football Operations, or does it report directly to the CEO / Board of Directors? You have the other Functional organizations which wouldn't report to Football Ops, such as Finance, Marketing, Business Intelligence, etc. Has the organizational chart ever been publicly delineated before?

Just curious with no other inference intended.

Thanks!

Quote from: TDToomer on November 14, 2023, 03:34:41 PMSpot on. Mara listened to an outraged WFAN host and his pitchfork carrying followers and should have let McAdoo finish out the season with Geno or Webb. The Giants still lost the final 4 games with Spags and Eli.

Not entirely true. The Giants defeated the Redskins, 18-10, to close out the dreary season it was. Just a splattered disaster when it was all over with nobody wearing red, white and blue spared. The scary part was that even darker seasons lay ahead, and we don't even know if this season will reach new lows.

Y'all sure know how to depress a generally happy-go-lucky person, you know! Thank goodness for the Rangers and my AFL Premiers the Collingwood Magpies or I'd be jumping out the window after hitting POST.

Peace!

Quote from: NY47GIANTS on November 14, 2023, 07:08:06 PMAaron Rodgers did his weekly spot on the Pat McAfee show and ... once again ... the Pat McAfee show is talking about subjects NO OTHER SPORTS SHOW cares to tackle or even mention...

Why do the media focus so heavily on how bad the Jets/Zach Wilson are and there's not even a peep from the media about how bad Daniel Jones is in YEAR 5 and how bad the Giants are as a team?!!!

Greg Olsen during Sunday Night Football said the Giants barely had their starting QB this year; he said that as an excuse for their poor play.

He obviously did not watch Giants football during the first 6 weeks and/or was clearly mindlessly reading the words written for him.

(IMO)The narrative control around the Giants is strictly about coaching and the lack of success the coaches are having.

Bono to Bozo.

Color me shocked 

This is where it's impossible not to acknowledge the meddling.

We've entered anonymous sources season and wouldn't you know it, the anonymous sources magically line up with the owners intentions and are diametrically opposed to reality.

Some of the segment is tongue in cheek. With that said; there is some truth to the message, obviously.

Well worth the watch.

Have to hand it to Pat McAfee and crew; credit where credit is due.

The Pat McAfee show is the best sports show in the business today. For good reason.
 

You should rename this thread "NGT: Pat McAfee Show" and I agree with your premise

If you ever get a chance to watch Peyton's Places on ESPN+, he had Pat on the show to demonstrate the coffin corner punt. Pretty hilarious and worth the watch; I highly recommend it.

Peace!

Quote from: AZGiantFan on November 14, 2023, 12:53:47 PMTo improve the O-line they have to start with coaching.  I'd bet the Giants have put as much or more draft capital into the O-line as any team in the league.  I've said it before, but they need to do a deep dive into who is the best evaluator of online and online coaching talent  and do whatever it takes to hire them.  Because the Giants have had their heads up their butts for more than 10 years on the O-line.

You're close, but you still have to integrate those pieces into the system, which it is clear the Giants have completely failed to do:

1. Develop an offensive strategy
2. Develop the tactics (plays, counterplays, audibles, etc.)
3. Develop the offensive line formations and blocking schemes
4. Research and go get the offensive line players best suited to your offense
5. Train and coach your offensive line into a cohesive unit, unto itself
6. Integrate offensive line into the overall offense
7. Fine-tune to optimize

You offensive line experts out there know better than I, but my point is break it down to the smallest element, smallest requirement, and ensure you have a solution which verifies that requirement, then go to the next requirement, and so forth.

What's so damn hard about that?

Peace!

Quote from: Gmo11 on November 13, 2023, 01:57:20 PMThey're doing everything they didn't do last year.  They will never be able to sustain this pace, and last night they damn near lost to a less than stellar Columbus team, but right now they're hot, Laffy is hot, Quick is hot, and lets ride this wave for as long as it lasts.  And when the other shoe does drop at least they'll have built up enough of a cushion to where it won't matter as much.

Columbus seems to have their number this season. But it's really no secret, is it? Take the physical game to them, rough up their vulnerable players (e.g. Lindgren). Then, throw in a few questionable calls by the referee, and this is a game the Rangers lose last year. But they kept fighting and never quit to the final siren. They find their opportunity at 59:10 of the game and cash in. Tell me that isn't the difference in a new head coach. Further, Quickie kept them in the game to make that play the game tying goal.

Is this streak a realistic expectation to continue? Of course not. All these teams at the top right now, the Rangers, Bruins, Stars and Golden Knights will have their slumps. But so will the teams below them chasing them feverishly right now just to keep pace.

The Rangers need to use this week to heal up and get fresh for the onslaught of games coming at them next week which will directly threaten their consecutive point streak. No matter their current condition, Jersey will look forward to hosting them on Saturday. Will that be a carry over from last year's playoffs?

As I said before, we'll long forget the five game sweep of the Western Canadian Road Trip when March rolls along and the Rangers are positioning themselves for the playoffs against Carolina and New Jersey. They've already snagged one on their southern rivals and hope to do the same for their heated rivals across the bay.

With the Giants' season over, having the Rangers play this brand of hockey has more than filled up the fall time slots for me and hopefully for some of you all. No matter what may come for them in April and May, right now they are fun and enjoyable to watch. I'll take that anytime.

Peace!