Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Philosophers on October 09, 2023, 02:16:18 PMWe wont have an offense without a good OL.  If that draftee is the BPA, take him.

And we won't have a good team if we continue to spend Top 10 picks on one unit ignoring the other units on the team.  For offensive lines having chemistry is just as if not more important than having talent.  The Giants lines of the past had one pro bowl type player on it but the group played well as a unit.  Could be the issue is that the Giants are bringing in talent but not necessarily the best fits based upon what they have and what they are combining those players with.

Quote from: RelaxTension on October 09, 2023, 02:16:32 PMThe abuse came when I stated I don't see why fans have trust with Schoen and Dabs after just one season without improving the oline during this off season.
Thanks for trying and you weren't one of the assholes. 

In fairness I didn't see the responses to be abusive any more so than the normal back and forth on this forum.  You were correct though in concerns you had about the line going into the season.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 01:54:57 PMHere are all your posts. I can see you did have concerns for the O-Line but it doesn't mean you were the only one. It adds to my point. You did seem to have a debate with one person. Although I didn't read through everything. I hope I didn't give you a hard time over it.
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?action=profile;u=2712;area=showposts;start=210

Ed if I may I did find this.  So RT is correct about his concern about the line.  But was also incorrect at the reaction to his concern which wasn't as harsh as it was portrayed.  The response to his point were made were about the amount of resources the Giants have and that pouring more resources into the line would have come at a cost of other needs they had and still have.

Quote from: RelaxTension on August 17, 2023, 02:02:57 PMNot sure why some are happy about this oline which is currently rank close to the bottom of the league without even seeing them play together yet.

I feel that grading players is too difficult to accomplish but it's pretty unanimous that they aren't good or significantly better with one playing instead of another.. That's all not counting Thomas who would make them a significantly worse oline without him but still not close to average even with him..

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 09, 2023, 01:44:42 PMThere was plenty of Oline discussion and concerns.

https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=65809.0
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=65777.15
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66102.15
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66265.0
https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=66405.0

Quote from: Rambo89 on May 02, 2023, 12:43:39 PMAt this point in the off season the opportunity to fill needs is pretty much finished.  Outside of some minor things here and there this is their team.

As far as concerns, for me its:

1) Injuries/Health

2) The 2022 Rookies taking a big step forward specifically the top 10 picks

3) Daboll and his staff's ability to adapt to no longer being looked over as an opponent in the NFL.

I didn't think for a second at the time that all of this would go against the Giants through the first 5 weeks.  Forget the 3 point I don't think it would have been a surprise that the Giants would struggle with the first two items going against them.

https://www.footballguys.com/stats/snap-counts/teams?team=NYG&year=2023

The group I was most interested in were the WR's.  I was surprised to see Hyatt's snap count drop from week 4 while Shepard's snap count increased (maybe to help Jones's comfort level).  The trend that is definitely clear is that each week both Campbell and Hodgins snap counts are decreasing with Robinson's increasing.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 09, 2023, 01:29:19 PMTyrod 9/12 86 in very little time

Jones 14/20 119 yards for almost the whole game.

Yeah that makes sense.

I didn't think the offense looked any better or worse with Taylor running the offense so yeah when you look at that PFF's opinionated grades make little sense to me.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on October 09, 2023, 01:24:12 PMI just know that this team has churned players over the past 5 years and the one constant besides Sertling Shepherd is Jones, at some point we've got to change and I think it starts there.

That and how the Giants are putting together offensive line units with the assets they have to work with.  Are there still too many Mara cronies scouting and voices in the room having a say in who the Giants bring in and how they coach these guys?  IDK the answer to that.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 01:20:59 PMLast week the Giants' passing was 30th, their pass blocking 31st, and their receiving 32nd

This week the Giants' passing is now 29th, their pass blocking is 32nd and their receiving is 31st

Greg,

You are entitled to (and certainly exercising your right) to come here every day and bash Daniel Jones.  I do draw the line at your use of false strawman claims that I "treat PFF like a Bible."  I have repeatedly and consistently spoken of PFF's shortcomings.  Jones, by virtue of being a Giants player, is fair game in terms of being your target, I am not.

So we acknowledge that PFF grades are opinion based grades that are not factual?

Think I am seeing why if you use PFF grades as the Bible and factual (when it's not) that you would come to the conclusion that Jones is usually great and it's all on the supporting cast.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 01:07:28 PMThe post you choose to share literally says-  "Can't fault the QB here. OL has been bad v. stunts/twists forever."

Read the first sentence what does it say as far as responsibility based upon Kafka's comments?

That was shared to clarify the question I have asked for weeks which has gone unanswered.  I am sorry that it goes against the narrative that it's always the center's fault.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 09, 2023, 12:54:52 PMDave Brown played before message boards and social media.  There was barely any activity on the internet in those early development days.  So how were you guys able to compare?   I mean back then, fans had access to the evening news, ESPN, and your local paper.  Talk with other fans was limited to fans who you happen to talk football with. 

Let's not ignore Sports talk radio existing then and the beating Brown took there in addition to the newspapers which never had the bloggers and others defending Brown.  In fact no one did.

To answer that question Schneider provides his insight based off what he heard from Kafka's off season comments.  Sounds like it's issues all around.

https://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1711401010881499322?s=61

Quote from: Philosophers on October 09, 2023, 12:45:58 PMBPA period.  We need good players everywhere.  With 2nd pick we could get Marvin Harrison Jr, a true difference maker or trade back and stockpile picks.

Only position I would say no to is another Top 10 pick on an offensive linemen.  IMO it would be another draft ignoring the fact that the Giants have other needs on this roster that haven't gotten near the attention in terms of draft capital that the offensive line has.  Address that unit through other means.

Quote from: Philosophers on October 09, 2023, 12:27:34 PMWith a healthy Thomas and JMS, the OL gave up 7 sacks against Dallas.  The OL is still not average even with them.

Thomas was "healthy" for the first possession of that game before he got hurt on the blocked FG to where he played hurt for the remainder of the game.  Plus that was against one of the best fronts in the league.  Don't think we can draw a full conclusion based upon that.

Quote from: spiderblue43 on October 09, 2023, 11:57:05 AMHow about Jim Plunkett?
Beaten to a pulp with the Patriots and Niners..but became a great Raider two-time champ.

Plunket is an example that makes sense.  He had around the same number of starts in New England as Jones has had with the Giants.  Took a trip to San Francisco before he broke out with the Raiders.  Different era of football but a good example.  Geno Smith and Rich Gannon are not good examples.