Big Blue Huddle

Dexter is Jones best friend 

Unless i missed something the references have been about Dex's comments and when the references imply a plural they still support it with Dexs comments .


At the end of the Dex said jones is the best of the three and jones was class act .

I do not think anyone including Daboll would argue that .

I left the house for the rink at 7:20 and the Rangers were down 1-2 in what was a very good game.  

I left the rink and it was 3-6.  Looks like lots of action in the 3rd???

Any see the game ?

It would be easy to argue jones is 3-13 over last 16 games
He has failed to score more than 1 score on 5occasions
And failed to score more than 20 on 13 occasions

Has 10 TDs, 13 Ints and 2 Fumbles


I do not think it would be hard to defend his benching

Of course if the football decision is which QB gives us the best chance at the #1 pick then maybe he keeps playing

That summarizes 12 years of bad football 

Bound to be right from time to time or atleast twice 

Reese refused to build line and orchestrated Gilbride removal -  he deserved to be fired 

Jones is holding back offense and should be let go on out year 

Rich

Jones is the same QB as he was at end of 2022

If you watch the film the same mistakes are being made , due to the same reasons.

Your entitled to your opinion but no matter how many times you repeat doesn't make it correct


Btw - I never wanted more for DJ to rise up , I wish more than ever the QB1 job could be solidified
I was rooting more than ever in 2022 and in 2023 and didn't give up in 2024

Call me a DJ hater all you want but it really says more about your stance than mind

But I'm sorry his film shows the same mistakes as 19,20 and 2021.

He didn't change and that's the problem, he failed to develop

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 11:14:29 AMIf DJ should thank Daboll for his career-best 2022, should he curse him for his below-career average in 2023 and 2024?

those are the norm and closer to the median

It is what Jones is. This seems clear to most

Back when we had Davis Webb it most almost impossible to discuss Webb without bias, Jones is very much the same. 

It appears now that the reality that Jones is not the QB and will not be the QB of the future you have begrudgingly accepted it and have gone all in on blaming the Giants and the coaches for it.  

I will say you seem too personally invested in jones to be objective about any subject related to him 

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 10:57:35 AMTracy seems to negate much of the Barkley factor.  As for the 2022 offense being better for Daniel Jones, what does that say about Daboll if he put his starting QB in a system where he will perform much worse than his potential?

It says he put him in a system where he actually had to function like an NFL QB and stop relying on Barkley as a crutch and a check  down.   Maybe that is exactly way Schoen let Barkley leave....

Side note - They couldn't run DJ like that they did in 2022 as he is not physically capable of sustaining it. 

Knowing at the end of this season there is an out clause Jones needed to hit developmental benchmarks for the in-game mental processing so they could decided to keep him next year. He simply has not.

Jones should thank Daboll for the 2022 season being the highlight of his career and the monster guaranteed payday it lead to. Daboll did that and it's a positive, to spin it as a negative presents as a misguided smear effort

The two areas we continue to work on, well actually three: 3rd downs, red zone and explosive plays

It is hard to generate points when your longest play is 14 yards or your longest play is 15 yards last week

We put a lot of time and effort and we are not getting the results , not for the work and effort we are putting in




Coach Daboll seems frustrated with what is holding back the offense

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 10:38:51 AMRegardless if you believe the Giants did or didn't contribute to DJ's failure to develop into a franchise quarterback, it is pretty much irrelevant at this point.  DJ is broken and he isn't going to be fixed by the Giants.

One thing that I will say baffles me about Jones is his clear decline from 2022 until now.  I would say the pass protection is roughly on par with 2022 with a better WR corps with Nabers.  So why is Jones playing markedly worse this season than 2022? 

2022 QB rating 95.2/QBR 62.9

2024 QB rating 79.4/QBR 46.4

O line is much better than in 2022 and Barkley was the offense and the dual running threat allowed Jones and Barkley both to run despite the porous Oline, as well as, allowing jones to pass even if at a low functioning level. 

Regardless it was an offense with training wheels, designed to limit the impact of the horrible line and Jones limitations.
simple, simple a simple....

It is disingenuous to imply that 2022 was the level Jones was consistently at when it was anomaly engineered and executed by Daboll so well it got the team into the playoffs. 

and to give credit were credit is due Jones had a career game

Jones yesterday is not much different that the QB the Giants drafted; extremely hardworking class act that has the best intentions.  Just not a leader and not a but who elevates the offense and makes others better.  In fact he has consistently made his line look worse than they are. 

Non of this is new, he is the same guy he always was

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 10:27:36 AMIt seems to me that what Daboll is or isn't is more relevant than Jones.  The reality is that the Giants broke Jones, and he doesn't seem fixable, at least by the Giants.  At this point, if Jones ever becomes a starter (a long shot at this point), it will be with another team.

On the other hand, what Daboll is as a head coach is perhaps the most relevant topic left for the season

I am not buying the Giants broke Jones, the film shows the same traits over and over. I will say they didn't do him many favors in his development.  But Jones inability to continue to develop is on him and his mental limitations and the signs have been there since the first and second seasons.

Presnap and post snap, all the same traits that existed in past in the face of pressure or in the absence of it still exist today.

Playing QB off the 2 headed running attack with Barkley was the only real success he showed and that was a double edge sword as it was limited and halting his development.



I completely agree, what role if any Daboll has with the Giants is the number 1 question, then try to assess offensive personnel 

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 09:20:11 AMQBs going backwards in their development is common in Daboll's career

https://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=71340.0

Jones has had the same traits be limited factors for 6 years 

So what Daboll is or isn't will need to be assessed separately 

He got more out of jones than anyone else, and exposed Jones's ceiling in the process  

Coaches deploy different tactics for different personalities of players. They also use different approaches at different times with the same player 

QB was Jones's job to lose. No competition was brought in at all, period.  Outside of injury no one else was being given reps on game day as management needed a clear understanding of what they had and what they didn't have in Jones, so Mara could clearly see the 22 mill payout to cut ties was a good deal.

As such providing positive messages for a player who lacks confidence was a smart approach. Jones was playing average / slightly above average ball and building him up was the only reasonable  approach 

As development started to go backwards and the signs showed taking the next developmental step was less likely the coaches comments were not as uplifting 

What and when Daboll made his comments aren't odd or out of line



 

Quote from: Stringer Bell on November 10, 2024, 01:28:24 PMWe all don't have to agree on it, but I think it's fair to question that play call on 3rd and 1 when you have a ineffective QB and an OL that has given up 16 sacks in last 4 games.

It's reasonable to think that a trick play that takes a long time to develop and requires a QB to make an accurate read + a good throw was less likely to succeed than a running play.

Daboll delusionally had  a moment were he thought he could pull tricks out of his sleeve and forgot the ineptitude that surrounds a Jones run offense

Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 08, 2024, 10:47:17 AMThe Giants are not dead last in scoring offense because Mel Kiper's right about 2 deep safeties. 

The Giants can't run because teams stack the box and force Jones to beat them over the top, it has been going on for 6 years and he can not do it consistently.

Until he can do it consistently it will not change. 

A QB must be able to take what is being given and that in itself is Jone's problem.  He does not always recognize what is being presented, assuming he does he can not take the necessary steps built inot the offense to beat it. 

Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 08, 2024, 11:28:26 AMIt is obvious and I think most would agree that you need a franchise QB to win consistently, however is the franchise QB enough by himself to sustain consistent winning records? Let us analyze a few good to elite QB's this year and see what the numbers show:

A) Joe Burrow (elite) projected numbers

68% 4542 yards 41 TD 7 Int 108 RTG

4 wins 6 losses, a losing record

B) Baker Mayfield (good) projected numbers

71% 4513 yards 43 TD 17 Int 105 RTG

4 wins 5 losses, a losing record

C) Geno Smith projected numbers

68% 4836 yards 21 TD 19 Int 88 RTG

4 wins 5 losses, a losing record

D) Trevor Lawrence projected numbers

61% 3785 yards 21 TD 11 Int 87 RTG

2 wins 7 losses, a losing record

E) Dak Prescott (good) projected numbers

64% 4203 yards 23 TD 17 Int 86 RTG

3 wins 5 losses, a losing record

As you can see in all five cases, all five QBs are considered good to elite, and yet with regard to all five QBs they have losing records, but why?

Because each of them are on teams that field terrible defenses, here are the numbers:

A) Cowboys 28.1 ppg ranked 31st
B) Jaguars 28.0 ppg ranked 30th
C) Buccaneers 27.0 ppg ranked 28th
D) Bengals 26.2 ppg ranked 26th
E) Seahawks 24.3 ppg ranked 23rd

As you can see having a franchise QB is great, but just having him alone isn't enough. The data is showing you need a team made up of the other 52 players doing their job to win consistently.

Offense, Defense, and Special Teams all need to be performing at a high level to win consistently in the NFL.

Curious your thoughts if you agree or disagree with me, as there is no right or wrong answer here.

Lack of a defense is not a free pass for poor QB play and Poor QB play is not a free pass for a bad defense. 

Giants don't have a franchise QB or a defense...