Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Trench on November 18, 2024, 07:35:30 PMBecause one did some decent things last year while in the same spot and the other just flat out stinks.

Flat out stinks alright.

Game 1 - entire team outclassed by the Vikings.
Games 2-4 this entire Board cited Jones's playing well leading his own idiot coach to state "he's been locked in".
Game 5 - 7 sacks, 10 hits, 10 hurries. Jones took a beating.
Game 6 - 20-26 with three drops and an elite
91.5 PFF score.
Game 7 - the idiot coach calls a flea flicker with less than a two feet to go. Blames Jones publicly for missing open receivers. Guess Jones is the only QB who does that.

Of course the QB is always the scapegoat when a team loses. But the porous defense isn't to blame? The special teams play isn't to blame? The coach and his play calling isn't to blame?

I guess the other 21 starters, the coaches and the officials all have nothing to do with Ws and Ls. It's all about the QB... got it.


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This organization is an embarrassment and it's getting worse by the week.

If I'm Jones and his agent, I'm asking for anything to get out of this mess. What are the cap limitations for either trading or releasing Jones.

I'm embarrassed to be a Giants fan now.


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Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 07:25:34 PMI don't think his assessment fit DJ to a tee, especially through the lens of DJ's rookie and year 4 perfance.  Why did DJ play much worse in years 5 and 6?   Why was QB guru Pat Shurmur so high on DJ?  Why did Greg Cosell study DJ's NFL film and declare he had franchise QB talent?   Why did Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah say DJ has franchise QB potential just last week?  Why did the Broncos and Washington want to draft DJ in round one?   Why did Mike Lombardi say the NFL was high on DJ and he would be a surprise first round QB?

McShay has also been wrong a lot. Now he's tooting his horn coming out six years later and bragging he knew Jones wouldn't pan out. No wonder ESPN fired him. He was the outlier with the vast majority of scouts loving Daniel Jones. Mel Kiper and many other NFL Front Offices also had him rated highly. Not one player from Duke was drafted Jones' senior year. Jones was MVP of the Senior Bowl and lit up the Combine with his measurables, athleticism and arm talent. As I've stated before - Phil Simms said right on WFAN - Boomer Esiason Show that he knew of four teams who were poised to select Jones before 10.

Let's remember Jones burst on the scene his rookie year throwing 24 TDs in 12 games until a high ankle sprain and key injuries to his OL derailed him. In the years following, he was the victim of numerous coaching changes and the worst offensive lines in the league that led to a stream of injuries that have plagued him. John Mara was right in stating "we did all we could in screwing up Daniel Jones."

I just finished reading "Sunday Morning Quarterback " by Phil Simms ( Amazon) - recommended by you Rich. I firmly believe that if fans would read that book, they will gain a different perspective on just what it is like to be a NFL Quarterback.


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Quote from: babywhales on November 05, 2024, 10:46:16 AMThe offense is designed around jones . 

His limited abilities massively limits what can be run.  That being said the teams inefficiencies to run the simple stuff is a sign of the limitations of personal and has to reflect on the at some level on the coach .

But the limited playbook and simplicity of the offense is directly related to Jones and not Daboll.

I disagree. None of us really know the actual reasons why the offense is not being productive.  There's not enough evidence to put it all on Jones and his supposed limited skills as you infer.

Jones threw 24 TD passes in 12 games his rookie year under Shurmur. He was three passes away from breaking NFL rookie records until a bad high ankle sprain and injuries to key offensive players stopped the offense. He has the NFL arm talent to make any throw.

So rather than pin this issue just on Jones, I have a conglomeration of things to consider:

First - teams are playing two deep safeties across the league. Mel Kiper is calling on the league to ban this defense because teams are resorting to short and intermediate passes which is what the defense is giving them.

Second - Daboll knows full well his OL is among the league's worst in pass protection. The Pittsburgh game was the greatest example - 7 hits, 10 hurries, 10 hits. There isn't a QB around who can go through his progressions with that. So instead Jones has to look for his primary target only. Daboll knows his OL sucks as well, so he has to call short/intermediate passes with such limited pocket time. As George Young stated many times "show me a struggling team and I'll show you a team with a struggling offensive line".
 
Third - the weapons are limited. The Giants couldn't get a 4th or a 5th round pick for Slayton. He is a bottom tier #2 receiver on this team with questionable hands. Robinson is the Z but brings little to the table in YAC and reliability. Nabers is double teamed every play. The tight ends are again bottom tier. Theo has dropped so many passes and is just learning the position. Bellinger is a no show.

Fourth - play calling is questionable. How many times have any of us called the plays ahead of time? When I watch the 49ers, there are all kinds of misdirection and schemes especially in the red zone.

Fifth - bad teams find different ways to lose games. Besides the QB, there are 21 other players, coaches, officials and breaks that affect the outcome of these games. DJ rose to 12th in QBR in the league after being "locked in" games 2-4. After the Pittsburgh debacle, he was the best player on the field for the Giants in the Washington game. 20-26 with three drops and a nullified TD due to a bogus call resulting in an elite 91.5 PFF score. The defense lost that game allowing them to punt only twice with no pressure on Daniels.

So many of you truly believe if we just change the QB, all will be well. If the Giants had their way, they would have traded up for Drake Maye. There would be no Nabers nor either Nubin or Tracy. Maye has been terrible in New England. So would the Giants be better this year with Maye? I would suggest no.

I agree it's time for Jones to go. He doesn't deserve the treatment he's receiving from just about everyone. But a cautionary tale - your team will not automatically be better with a rookie QB. It might actually be worse. Be careful ... you might get what you wish for.


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Ok so if you got your wish -

The Giants tried to move up to get Drake Maye. So far Maye has been horrible. The Giants wouldn't have Nabers and either Nubin or Tracy either.

Would the Giants be a better team with Drake Maye as your QB and no Nabers and no Nubin/ Tracy?

Old saying in life - be careful, you might get what you're wishing for.


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We know you hate Daniel Jones. But why you continue to personally attack posters who think differently than you is pathetic and not acceptable behavior on this Board.


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Quote from: Trench on November 03, 2024, 04:07:14 PMNope. He lost. There were numerous times he didn't make a play. He is exactly what we hear in pre season practices from the beat writers: it's either hot or cold

No "he" didn't lose. The Giants did.


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The Giants stopped the Commanders twice today with three and outs. Other than that, they marched the ball up and down the field. Banks got beat again. There was no pressure on the QB.

The officials once again made a ridiculous call to bring back a TD.

Chris Hubbard was awful and eventually the Giants needed to give him help on every pass play. There were also several key drops.

Jones was decent and ran the offense the best he could. Jones was "locked in" games 2 to 4 yet the Giants lost.

I read "Jones isn't a difference maker" in the final comments and just shook my head. It's not all about the QB. The other 21 players, the coaches, the officials, breaks, turnovers etc. all affect Ws and Ls.

But if we just change the QB all will be well ... right?


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Quote from: T200 on November 03, 2024, 03:20:06 PMI love DJ the runner. DJ the QB??? Not as much.

We get your relentless points


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Quote from: sxdxca38 on November 03, 2024, 03:13:29 PMOnce again your comments are uncalled for, and not appreciated.

Just ridiculous - I too am sick of this garbage.


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To me the key to the game is how Chris Hubbard plays. He's the worst left tackle in the game and if DJ takes a pounding primarily because of him, the Giants are in trouble. Of course we'll blame the QB - but if the Giants can't pass effectively, they will have to rely on their running game. Control the clock and they can win

Giants 27-24


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Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 02, 2024, 04:40:42 PMThis is utterly false. "Multiple teams" never reveal to anyone before draft day whom they intend to take.

Then text Phil Simms and tell him he is a liar. He said it on a public radio station. You aren't privy to inside information like he is.  Phil has built a reputation for being honest and forthright.

You should also know that teams regularly communicate with head coaches and tell them  or even the player that they plan on drafting him at a certain point of the Draft. Cutcliffe knew who the teams were as well.


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Quote from: MightyGiants on October 30, 2024, 08:01:03 AM@DaveBrown74 @LennG @y_so_blu  (the guys who liked this comment)

I think it's fair to criticize DJ's shortcomings.   It's more than fair.  However, I do take issue when people bash a player on the Giants and suggest he is just as bad a measurably terrible QB.

Consider:

QB Rating

Jones- 79.5
Richardson- 57.2

QBR

Jones- 44.6
Richardson- 38.4

PFF

Jones- 66.1
Richardson- 48.7

Yards

Jones- 1706
Richardson- 958

TDs

Jones- 6
Richardson- 4

INTs

Jones- 5
Richardson- 7



I think it shows a bias against the Giants starting QB when you suggest they are the same or performing the same.  Looking at the PFF lineup grades, it's fair (especially in the light of injuries) to say that Richardson enjoys a stronger supporting case than DJ does.

Not only the PFF numbers Rich. People forget Jones threw 24 TDs in 12 games his rookie year. He was three shy of breaking a NFL rookie record until a high ankle sprain and injuries to several key offensive players hindered his record setting pace.

This Board and Giant fans were happy as clams that the Giants finally found their franchise QB. Richardson has never displayed any NFL arm talent in college or in the pros.


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Quote from: LennG on October 29, 2024, 07:41:54 PMAnd then there were all the lovers of that pick who insisted that if we didn't draft Jones, there were several other teams all set to pounce on him. Even our own 'homer' Phil Simms said it, trying to justify Jones at #6.
Jones was, at best, a late 1st round pick and even that would have been a stretch.

I don't believe you have Simms' take correct. Jones was MVP of the Senior Bowl and lit up the Combine with his arm talent and athleticism. Jones was well known to NFL scouts. Mel Kiper had Jones as the highest rated QB prospect and mocked him to the Giants at 6 months before the Draft. Kiper also repeatedly said his contacts in the league were all high on Jones.

As to Simms - after the Draft,he was on WFAN morning show with Boomer Esiason. He told  him that he knew the four teams who were poised to take Jones before 6. But he declined to publicly air who those teams were but did say he would tell him off air.  DG explained that he knew of multiple teams who were going to take Jones before 10. This was corroborated by Jones' coach and at least four other respected NFL media types


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The Jones contract did not prevent the Giants from signing Barkley. They had $30 million in cap space available which was more than enough. Schoen put a cap on what he was willing to pay Saquon. The Giants don't have running backs and safeties rated highly on positional value. Especially 27 year old RBs with a history of injuries.


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