Big Blue Huddle

He's getting in. First ballot

Quote from: T200 on November 21, 2024, 03:14:23 PMYou did, Dan. You did.       

This about sums it up.

I too would like to start at QB for the Giants. But it isn't happening in this lifetime. That's a job that should be earned on the field. Jones hasn't earned anything over the last 6 years. He's been as much a part of the problem as anyone else. Actually he's more of a problem because of the position he plays and how lousy he is at his job.

Who are we kidding? The permanent benching of Daniel Jones is the best news we've gotten as Giants fans in about 3 years. Send him home, pay him for the last 7 weeks, and wish him good luck in the future. No one's going to just hand him a starting job any longer. He's reached the point in his career where he will have to earn whatever he gets.

Time to turn the page. As much as we all want a true franchise QB, the Giants can sign a journeyman QB for peanuts and get similarly poor QB play.

I don't see how Daboll isn't coaching for his job. If he finishes 3-14 or 4-13 I don't see how they can justify bringing him back.

Quote from: TDToomer on November 15, 2024, 09:04:07 AMHow can you possible say that about McKinney? That's like saying Dexy couldn't be an all pro on this D when he is also on his way there (and has already made an AP team, multiple PB). These are just excuses to justify continuing to let our best talent walk out the door. I suppose Love wouldn't be a Pro Bowler had he stayed as well.

I take your point. To be fair, Dex is a Hall of Fame talent. McKinney was never a Pro Bowler or All Pro with the Giants. He leveled up in a big way with Green Bay. In hindsight it doesn't look good letting McKinney walk. Same with Love.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 15, 2024, 08:01:19 AMI think Barkley is a prime example of two things that can be true at the same time.


1)  If Barkley goes to the Eagles, his career could enjoy a resurgence, and he could really have a great season  (including staying healthy with the Eagles superior medical staff)

2)  If the Giants kept Barkley, he would have continued to be stunted and the Giants would continue to lose as they had under most of the 5 years Barkley was on the team

Two players, Barkley and Mckinney, are on track to be first team All Pro. Meanwhile, the Giants need All Pro talent. To your point, they probably aren't All Pro if they stayed with the Giants. We are trapped in a vicious cycle.

...after Saquon's big game last night. Saquon is on pace for a career year. John Mara, presumably, is having trouble sleeping.

https://x.com/NFLonPrime/status/1857284037447958617?t=taIn7uDBMeKaF5SWG2loQw&s=19

Quote from: T200 on November 14, 2024, 10:23:31 PMI know it would never happen, but a mandatory rookie redshirt for QBs would improve the overall QB play throughout the league, IMO.

I agree but I don't think they can make it mandatory. Maybe a salary cap incentive to keep rookie QBs off the field. Don't count the first year against the cap for those QBs who are redshirted. I don't know but it's something worth thinking about.

You may be overestimating how much people on this site are interested in your posts... whether groveling, boasting, or portraying pseudo-intellectual nonconformist.

Meanwhile...

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 09:20:02 PMThe idea that you must be right because many people agree with you is an example of the ad populum fallacy, also known as the bandwagon fallacy. This fallacy occurs when someone argues that a belief or action is correct because the majority of people support it.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 07:25:34 PMI don't think his assessment fit DJ to a tee, especially through the lens of DJ's rookie and year 4 perfance.  Why did DJ play much worse in years 5 and 6?  Why was QB guru Pat Shurmur so high on DJ?  Why did Greg Cosell study DJ's NFL film and declare he had franchise QB talent?  Why did Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah say DJ has franchise QB potential just last week?  Why did the Broncos and Washington want to draft DJ in round one?  Why did Mike Lombardi say the NFL was high on DJ and he would be a surprise first round QB?

No animosity here. Only fascination. You would add to your credibility if you admit to your evaluation mistakes on Jones. It's obvious to so many of us that Daniel Jones is the exact QB McShay warned us he was.

I have no interest in claiming I was right. I used to be a bigger cheerleader than you. I had to accept when they drafted Flowers and Apple in consecutive years that this organization is fundamentally rotten. Every year I hope they will prove me wrong and every year they just lower their standards and expectations. They've become a losing organization that makes excuses and they've been this way for over a decade now. Daniel Jones is not the problem. Daniel Jones is the most obvious symptom of the problem.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 08:20:13 PMSo, are you suggesting the issue is confirmation bias at work? It seems to me that once you declare DJ no good, you are at serious risk of confirmation bias (especially true with people who mock others whom they incorrectly perceive as wrong).  Oh, and changing one's opinion in the light of new evidence is not a bad thing; it's a good thing.  Thats what we do in science we strive to get it right, not to engage pointless contests about who was right or wrong, we focus on getting it right so we are always open to adjusting our views.

That's not what you're doing on this site. You previously talked about Jones as a top-10 caliber QB. Now you're blaming the organization instead of accepting any responsibility for your posts over the years.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 08:41:51 PMI am heavily involved in the draft every year.  No one was saying Neal was a "can't miss stud tackle."  They believed he was a notch below that level.

Neal didn't show anything against Carolina that would make any good faith observer believe he is capable of living up to what he was sold to be in the draft.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 07:59:58 PMAfter Sunday are you still sure everyone was wrong about Neal?


As for your point, the simpler and more obvious explanation is the Giants broke Jones.

Yes, I'm sure Evan Neal is not a can't miss stud tackle. I don't think a game where he displayed obvious balance issues against one of the worst defenses in the league changes that. I don't lower standards and expectations to fit narratives.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 13, 2024, 07:25:34 PMI don't think his assessment fit DJ to a tee, especially through the lens of DJ's rookie and year 4 perfance.  Why did DJ play much worse in years 5 and 6?   Why was QB guru Pat Shurmur so high on DJ?  Why did Greg Cosell study DJ's NFL film and declare he had franchise QB talent?   Why did Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah say DJ has franchise QB potential just last week?  Why did the Broncos and Washington want to draft DJ in round one?   Why did Mike Lombardi say the NFL was high on DJ and he would be a surprise first round QB?

For the same reason everyone was wrong about Evan Neal? A herd mentality in the draft process doesn't invalidate evaluations that turn out to be accurate.

In my opinion it's okay to take a shot on a QB you love in the draft. The problem is when you force the franchise to live and die with that player for half a decade or more. Take a shot and draft a QB you love, but don't lower the bar in terms of performance. And don't allow yourself to imagine a level of skill that isn't there. When you do draft the player, be a bit skeptical and force the player to win you over with his on field performance. Don't hand him anything.

As for Daniel Jones specifically, he was a fatally flawed prospect in the draft. If you're slow to process, you are going to struggle in the NFL. Take a guy like that in the 4th round and see if he surprises you. If some other team wants to draft him in an earlier round, wish them well.

This draft evaluation from Todd McShay is perfectly articulated. He was right about everything and it's mind boggling that the Giants could fall in full bloom love with this prospect. What's even worse is the years of gaslighting and excuse making to explain away poor performance. They made a mistake. It happens. But they should've owned up to it years ago. Instead they launched a public relations campaign to attack anyone who didn't fall in line and pretend Jones was a good QB.

https://x.com/uSTADIUM/status/1856341008377634901?t=XV313BlDAzk0RbOj6LBGjQ&s=19

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 12, 2024, 07:19:21 PMHow many times did he mention that they have the youngest D in the league? Must have been at least three times, maybe four or five. Who cares? Why is that even relevant in year three of a build? In year three it should be 100% about current performance, not some 2-3 year outlook.

Good post and good point on the quote above. I haven't seen the press conference yet but I'm assuming Schoen didn't qualify his comments about the defense by mentioning the core 3 (Dex, Burns, and Okereke) are not young. If anything, Okereke is moving past his prime and who knows how long Dex can play at this level at 350 lbs. The defense still needs a lot of work, particularly if Banks doesn't straighten out.