Big Blue Huddle

Inclusive.

Is that going to be the caveat on Eli Manning should he get the call announcing his selection?

Wouldn't that be appropriate as the ultimate back-handed compliment of all after a career of accomplishments which brought great pride to the Football Giants organization, not to mention NFL memories that will forever stand thr test of time as among the greatest ever.

Sure, inclusive ... whatever you want to call it.

For a matter of perspective, the magnitude of the game has grown considerably since the initial round of Hall of Fame inductions were announced in the early 1960s. As such, the number of teams have grown as have the number of players per team roster as well as number of games per season, not to mention the playoffs and Super Bowl, which did not even exist in the early 1960s.

The semifinalists are all well deserving of being strongly considered for a bust in Canton. I respect that everyone has an opinion whether one should make the final cut versus another. Diluting, though, is disrespectful to them and their respective football journies. They didn't get selected by popular vote but, instead, how their contribution added to the very fabric of the professional sport itself. Every individual on that list, and even those who were down-selected, all have distinguished themselves to that very end.

Perhaps instead of looking at it as an inclusive event, which it undoubtedly is, for obvious reasons, the choice made by Goodell to make it an Academy Award-like atmosphere turns people off to the concept. That is something I would agree with and the extra bravado we can all do without and more preservation of dignity that can build back in. But don't lessen the honor for those who have earned it fairly.

Every Hall of Fame inductee has a special story that is his football journey. Many have been featured in the critically acclaimed NFL Films series, "A Football Life." That program has largely stood down after 10 years but remains one of my all-time favorite NFL Films works. In fact, I've come to respect more players outside the Giants' organization, whom I despised in my youth, because of that program and learning more about the individual and letting go a little of the tribal warfare hatred.

Simply put, I respectfully disagree with anyone who suggests the Hall of Fame is diluted or inclusive in a negative context. It is a central gathering place to celebrate professional gridiron football from its earliest days to the present and its players, coaches and contributers who helped grow the sport into what is becoming a global passion. If the founding fathers knew the sport would reach nations far from America, they would never have believed it. Not only was it possible, but it is being demonstrated before our very eyes.

THAT is what inclusive should mean in the proper context.

Peace!

Quote from: katkavage on November 20, 2024, 06:57:56 PMAll correct, Kart. But Mara wants to win now.To stop the bleeding. The whole Jones era set the franchise back a decade. It never should have lasted this long. That's not on Jones but the fools that should have known better.

We're going to find out how much he wants to win now versus maintain his status quo as #4 in the NFL's richest teams list. The question remains does he know how to win himself out of a wet paper bag with fans throwing medium Pepsi's at him. Let's see him soft-shoe his way through that escapade and see the winning ways of a "Whole New Generation of Giants' Winning Ways!"

It should be quite interesting to say the very least!

Peace!

Quote from: katkavage on November 20, 2024, 05:42:19 PMYou guys are missing the point. You are not incorrect in saying the Giants should not reach for a QB and kick the can down the road. The problem is, the road ends for both Schoen and Daboll if they do that. They have one year to either turn it around totally or show that with a young promising QB they have hope for the future. As much as we like Nabors, they blew it by not picking McCarthy, Penix or Nix. All might be better than what's out there in 2025.

I want to jump on your bandwagon, kat, I really do. I also get what a QB vs. other position for pick #1 does for Daboll and possibly/likely Schoen. Both are going to have to carefully evaluate the risk vs. opportunity at where they will pick as well as whom they will pick. I also agree it is way too early to assess that risk right now.

But I want to throw caution to the wind and make sure our "informed" board of Giants' fans here understand that a Lisfranc injury on an often-injured Left Tackle, despite what articles were written about Thomas' injury, IN GENERAL, which claimed he should have no problem resuming his career and, oh, by the way, his arthritic condition is "gonna suck" when he gets to our age so "don't worry about it." I have a first-hand, up-close and personal experience with someone who recently had a broken tibia & fibula PLUS a Lisfranc fracture AND came out of it running better now than ever before. I'm talking about my wife, who turned 55 last month, and had plates and screws put in for the Lisfranc, base of the tibia and fibula which, initially, did NOT heal properly. They had to refracture the Lisfranc and repair it again. Her four to six month recovery turned into nearly a whole year. She made it work by losing weight, hitting the gym hard to build strength around her injury and slowly took up running again. She has her days where it hurts but, by and large, she feels wonderful and she doesn't look a day over 30 right now (lucky me!).

But that's the story of a petite woman when we're talking about a 340+ pound Left Tackle with a history of lower leg injuries and this being perhaps the most devastating of all. I have little doubt he is going to give his all to come back and be ready for opening day 2025. But we have to see it as it is in terms of the cumulative effect of these injuries slowly, but surely, impacting his overall performance and durability.

I would be willing to back off his replacement if you can convince me the Giants draft or sign a projected starting tackle who is versatile at either tackle position or, along the line of what you are thinking, a Left Tackle/Guard who could jump into either position and contribute immediately.

In the end, it logically obvious the QB is the most pressing need right now. But it is also obvious that the Giants need to help out Andrew Thomas with a suitable yet capable backup who can either hold the fort down in his absence or, worst case scenario, be his eventual replacement if he can't go all 17 games. The best predictor of future history is looking at recent past which is a lot of missed games due to injury. The bottom line is the Giants' overall performance on offense tanked the moment Thomas left the field after he fractured his Lisfranc and they haven't been the same since. That simply cannot happen and exposing a rookie to NFL defenses without a suitable Left Tackle should also be punishable by losing your job,, in my humble opinion.

Peace!

Quote from: katkavage on November 20, 2024, 04:27:23 PMIt's not gonna happen. They have to take a QB. Mara expects it and if they don't, take a journeyman, lose again, they will be out of their jobs.

Or, everyone comes to the realization that Andrew Thomas is damaged goods, the Left Tackle is a position of need (NOTE: degree of need can be debated, but nobody here has touched that point with a 39 1/2 foot pole, not even the Grinch himself), and the rookie QB you "have to have or else" is beaten to a pulp and on injured reserve shortly into what was a promising career for him. Now, you're down a QB AND the LT all of a sudden becomes the priority need.

I'd take my chances with a one-year free agent, get the best Left Tackle in the nation IF I'm drafting later than pick #3, and deal with a rookie QB in 2026. There's no moving a mountain next year anyway, so build the fortress and hire the knight in shining armor after.

If Thomas can come back 80% of his former self, he will be an excellent depth for the line. But he's a salvage title now and the sooner folks understand what that means, the sooner everyone understands the Left Tackle now becomes, albeit arguably, the most important position on the Giants' team.

Take care of business, GM!

Peace!

Didn't watch the game last night but caught the highlights. Looked like a nailbiter but also a competitive match. The boys put four past the Canucks' backup; not sure if that means anything or not because he appeared to make some good saves.

Have you all noticed that Igor's been giving up a lot of goals to his short side lately? Yup, there was one where he was completely screened that went in; fair enough. But in his last two starts, I'm noticing a trend with his short side becoming a desirable target for opponents to attack. It begs watching. It's clear he's not on his "A" game yet but he can get away with that as long as Quickie keeps pumping out shutouts. I think last year he shut out the Flames in what was a first for the Rangers in the Saddledome. It will be interesting to see if the coach rotates them the rest of the road trip.

It's hard to gauge the lines on a highlight film as I'm really looking at what Jones playing more has done overall to their defensive lineup. I see him as a developing left-handed version of Foxy with his strong ability to transition to the attack. My mind wanders thinking about both of them on the ice simultaneously along with the first offensive line.

Anyway, with a very difficult Calgary game coming up, the meat of the road trip will give us a little bit of a feel for how they are adjusting to more games during the week. If anything, I think it will make them better and come together even faster.

Peace!

An interesting "debate," or "paralysis of overanalysis" of "he meant this when he said that," and so forth.

Can't we leave it at:

"Thank you, Daniel Jones. Good luck on your future endeavors."

"It's been a hard ride, Daniel Jones, but you've been a pro's pro throughout."

"Daniel Jones, we hardly knew ye! But I tip my hat to ya, and raise me glass as I say 'May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind always be at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face, and rains fall soft upon your fields. And until we meet again, May God hold you in the palm of His hand.'"

But there has to be someone to toss a stone in the old Guinness and bark,

"Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!"



Oh, to be a Giant fan scorned!



Peace!

P.S. the humor of this post went out with the boys who were toasting ol' Danny Boy at the ol' pub a few hours before I hit the POST button. Such is the life of a gimpy, retired, one-legged kicker these days; albeit a Polish-bred one working on his Irish twang ... must be too many pints with the Mrs. whose Irish spunk drinks me under the table every time, and getting called out a pant-wetting lily-hugger. Ugh!

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 18, 2024, 08:10:08 PMThe last time a backup for the Giants played better than the starter that I can recall was 1997 and Danny Kanell.

The move was necessary but I would manage my expectations. The most likely effect will be a motivated team, knowing a new era is emerging.

I remember Danny and he, too, had a great defense which was beginning to come into its own when John Fox first took over as defensive coordinator.

But Danny played well throughout 1997, won the division and got the start in 1998 where he bottomed out and Kent Graham came in to salvage the season at 8-8.

I suppose you could also count 1999 when Kerry Collins took over for Kent Graham when performance at the QB position took a major shot in the arm.

All of it started with the same cycle we are experiencing today with Daniel Jones; except insert Dave Brown and there you have it, history is in the process of repeating itself.

When will Mara Tech ever learn?

Peace!

Quote from: Trench on November 18, 2024, 10:44:44 PMMy apologies, I totally misinterpreted your post.

You are fine and no problems, my friend. Please keep posting. I love your passion! Keep it up!

Peace!

Quote from: MrGap92 on November 18, 2024, 03:38:07 PMIt is a truly sad state of affairs Giants fans live with, regardless of where we all stand on various subjects, we all probably unanimously agree on this.

This is about the best summary of this thread that I've read thus far.

Thank you, Gapper, for taking the time to articulate precisely what I'm thinking, at the very least, and I'm sure many are as well.

From a football standpoint, it was necessary. Yet, on a personal level, especially when we look back many years from now, and can view this both more objectively and systematically, it was indeed a sad tragedy which should never have happened, but only in a place that can describe their perpetual buffoonery as "The Wilderness Years, Part Deux."

Rest in peace, Daniel Jones.

Quote from: Trench on November 18, 2024, 07:35:30 PMBecause one did some decent things last year while in the same spot and the other just flat out stinks.

Hi Trench - did you read my input before replying? My post was a cheeky reply to the whole idea that changing QBs actually INCREASES the Giants' probability for being in position to claim the #1 pick in the draft. I enjoy the passion in your posts but I think you jumped on the wrong person and the wrong comment altogether. As I've already stated in plenty of posts prior, I'm pretty settled with the thought that none of the QBs currently on the Giants' roster will be on the team next year. Tommy "Chicken Cutlets" might be the lone exception should he impress the rest of the way, but it's going to be very different next year.

Do me a favor. While you slam the door on Danny Dimes' back end, while telling him "Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya," remind Schoen that he still has to fix that big hole called the Left Offensive Tackle or nobody, not even our favorite Chicken Cutlet guy, stands a chance in hell of doing anything at the QB position.

Peace, my brother in Giant faith!

Quote from: files58 on November 18, 2024, 04:52:50 PMWhy? All of this is on Mara. Since 1965, my first year as a fan their regular season W-L record is about 60 games under .500. A historically losing franchise. Players, coaches, GM's all come and go, the one constant is a Mara. The four SB's for me are a mitigating factor in facing the losing. Remember this is the franchise that drafted Rocky Thomson. If it wasn't for Pete Rozelle stepping in we would not have had George Young. No Perkins, Parcells, Coughlin. Before them we had Webster, Robustelli, and more recently Gettleman. All Mara family soldiers. Finally they went outside the organization. However S&D were saddled with the history repeats itself QB from Duke. Mara is the reason we have had Jones for this long. "We've done everything we can to screw up this kid" resulted in the contract. The 2 yr out is the compromise. Here we are. Mara lives in a completely different world than we fans. The value of the Giant franchise in the last ten years has jumped from $2.1 Billion to about $7.3 Billion. Imagine a business that produces a vastly inferior product yet increases in value 3.5 times. Nice gig isn't it. Mara can afford to give Jones his good boy bonus while the customers get agita.

Heck, there was a time Art Rooney was called a "lovable loser." Chuck Noll took care of that and that franchise, and its six Lombardi Trophies in eight Super Bowl appearances, no longer sees their late patriarch as such.

You can't even use that term on the current Mara family membership. Lovable? I'm not sure even "The Duke" would have made the grade. Respect, absolutely, for Wellington. John, despite two Lombardis under his watch, still takes the back seat to Tom Coughlin who is generally respected universally now, and hopeful to be inducted into the Hall of Fame at the end of this season.

Peace!

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on November 18, 2024, 06:00:30 PMGood point earlier in the thread about Thomas.

When Jones got totally outplayed by other QBs on the same team last year, Thomas' absence during the stretch of games Jones played was offered up as an excuse by many here.

So now that Thomas is out for the season, that needs to be factored into the equation by those trying to keep score given Jones had him for a good chunk of his time on the field this year. Otherwise that's totally inconsistent with the narrative of last year.

Thomas was playing well this season but he's been better in the past.

But he is now damaged goods and has a salvage title next to his name. The little we watched of him, this season, will be about the best we'll ever see again. His cumulative effect of injuries to his feet, ankles and knees are now a serious problem and that Lisfranc, even after it was repaired, will be an issue for him for the rest of his career as well as his life. Translated to mean: unless Shoen addresses the now serious Left Tackle issue the Giants have, it doesn't matter who is playing QB.

This QB situation is serious. But the LT situation could be even more serious if Thomas can't make it back on the field before training camp next year. Even if he doesn't, he'll only be at best 80% of the player he once was, and that's being generous.

To me, it's a no-brainer. They have to fix that O-Line and build quality depth before going all in on a franchise QB. I just don't see how it can work any other way. You can't assume Thomas returns to his previous self because he no longer is that player. He could certainly provide depth, but I just don't see him a full-time starter anymore.

There is a two-year draft puzzle to solve here and it won't get fixed next April. So, they have to go with the choice that stabilizes everything so a new QB can come in and compete immediately.

Peace!

How does taking "Dimes" off the field, and tossing a "Chicken Cutlet" in his place, buy you a whole nine (9) percentage points probability of jumping from current state draft slot five (5) to slot one (1), anyway?

Can we get the official formula extrapolation in order to calculate probability, using the "if-then" conditions above for slots two (2) through four (4)?

Does the formula extrapolation change dramatically should Lock see some snaps? Can we get an extrapolation if both QBs played 50% of every game with one alternate scenario having "Chicken Cutlet" start the game, another where Lock starts the game, and yet another where the starter is rotated every week, and yet another where a coin is flipped where "Chicken Cutlets" wins the toss and starts first, and finally the other where Lock wins the toss and he starts first in the rotation.

At this stage, call Bellvue because if we really believe the Chicken Cutlet, Egg Creme local star is worth only 9%, then I'd say f&@k it and start the Irish kicker, Jude McAtemney as the starting QB and increase the probability from 12% to a guaranteed 100% and take out all the guesswork.

Besides, how cool would a QB with a #99 jersey be anyway? Also, since he's a local product from Rutgers, Chicken Cutlet guy can help him find an agent and get his 15 minutes of Fame similar to Tommy last season. At least THAT, and pick #1, make the rest of the year a little more interesting.

By the way, do those guys ship Sabretts along with their famed condiments out this way? Haven't had a good NY frankfurter in ages!

Peace!

Carolina since that is his home state and he can find enough peace being close to family, friends and no New York pressure to deal with anymore.

But wherever he may end up, I'm grateful for his giving it his all for the Giants and their fans, and I only wish him the very best going forward.

Peace!

Well, when Quickie starts the Western road trip by delivering back-to-back shutouts, and a number of outstanding saves in goal, the Rangers controlling the puck in a quiet 2-0 victory, you realize and begin to appreciate the fact they Rangers have, by far, the best goalie tandem in the league, bar none.

I thought they defended well last night. The Octopii's goalie, Brubauer, also has a great game but the Rangers kept battling until the Breadman fed a nice pass from the corner, across the face of goal to Lexy who tapped it in to open scoring in the second period.

I am ecstatic to see Jones get more ice time this season and he demonstrated what he can do in transitioning defense to offense. His taking it coast to coast and finishing it with the Rangers' second score in the third period is, in my opinion, something thr Rangers could have used against Florida in last season's semifinals.

But a good tune up game for the Rangers as they get ready to go into Vancouver for what is expected to be a more challenging, and exciting, matchup with Igor expected to return between the pipes

Peace!