Big Blue Huddle

Connections
Puzzle #528
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I have to say, the first two episodes of this latest installation of "Yellowstone" have been absolutely lights out, in my opinion. Both have been 10 out of 10 caliber episodes for me. I can't wait for Sunday.

I like the idea of having a HOF but I agree it has become a bit too inclusive.

Quote from: LennG on November 20, 2024, 05:38:49 PMI may be wrong, but I would still take BB in a heartbeat. Give him a decent enough QB and he can still be a hell of a coach, at least IMVHO. If I had to choose between Daboll and BB, you know where I lean. Daboll might be OK and he may prove to be a better than he has shown coach, but BB is the GOAT.

Lenn,

I am with you that Belichick can still be a good if not great coach. That part doesn't particularly concern me. My concern with him is on the roster building side. He really did a horrible job there in his later years in NE and left that roster in absolute shambles. Many of his draft picks were shocking. That was 100% on him because he was singularly in charge. I cannot see any way Belichick would agree to come to the Giants and just be the coach and not insist on having a major say in the roster, if not the final say. Based on the results in NE once he lost Brady, I'm not sure I want that being brought to the Giants, even with him being a great coach.

It's very difficult to find a very good or great QB in the draft.

What's much less difficult is avoiding ever handing a so-so or totally unproven QB a huge contract beyond his rookie deal.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 08:35:12 PMInteresting how you reframed things and how popular the reframing was by the usual suspects.  You essentially removed the "when he is down" part of kicking a man while he is down to create a strawman like claim that criticizing the performance of active Giants is the same as continuing to bash a guy who essentially has been fired.


Jeff, I know you to be an intelligent man and a good person.  I don't know why you would distort the issue so badly with the reframing, nor why you would be an advocate for kicking people while they are down. 


One odd thing, DJ by every indication is a good hard working man.  It's amazing how such a man could bring out the lesser side of so many people.

I think you are personalizing all this Jones stuff too much, Rich. I have never once attacked Jones' character, integrity, or makeup as a man. I have routinely done the exact opposite for years, and I suspect you know that. My only negative comments of Jones have been about his contributions on the football field, particularly relative to his cost. I think my comments have been completely justified and appropriate. If my having made them is the "lesser side" of me, as you put it, then I actually take that as a compliment (even though I understand you did not intend it to be one), because I have done nothing wrong or objectionable. So if that's truly the lesser side of me, then I'm actually very happy with that.

Quote from: MrGap92 on November 19, 2024, 08:27:11 AMI'd be disappointed if they fire Pierce after his first season.

No QB, traded Devante, no RB, idk he hasn't had anything to work with.

I think this is a very fair take, and I agree with it. To fire Pierce after one year (plus a partial year where he did very well) seems totally impetuous to me.

Granted, I'm not in the building everyday and don't know all the internal dynamics. But on its face it seems unreasonable to only give him one year.

Quote from: spiderblue43 on November 19, 2024, 08:01:57 PMDave,

I agree letting Douglas go is prudent right now, but Woody simply usurped his power for Rodgers and clamoring fans, too..a de facto gm in their washed qb. Fish rots from the head and WJ is a clueless owner

All of that is certainly true, Spider.

As a side but related point, I don't know that Rodgers has the godlike power over the organization today that he did up until this awful season got underway. I suspect his power and internal status has diminished somewhat in the past three months. I think he'll be brought back, but more because the economics of cutting him don't make sense, even with him being disappointing relative to expectations/hopes.

I'm not sure I understand why or how it is somehow poor behavior if not sacrilege to speak unfavorably about Jones' football ability or to express relief that he is no longer the QB of the team, but it was perfectly fine all these years to completely denigrate numerous other supporting players on this team in an effort to excuse Jones' objectively poor results, especially considering that a number of these other players suddenly did better once they landed in a different organization with a different QB.

Not to mention the countless coaches, coordinators, and other employees who were routinely besmirched by Jones supporters here in the face of any criticism at all about his play from anyone else here.

If all of that was perfectly fine, why is it a problem to say anything negative about Jones' ability? That's not adding up at all for me.

As poorly as the Jets have been managed (for ages), I think they did the correct thing in letting Douglas go today, as opposed to the end of the season.

With this season clearly over, the Jets need to start thinking about the offseason and focusing on prepping, scouting, and strategizing around their own roster and free agency. If you're 100% certain that you're not bringing your GM back next season, then it makes little sense to have him remaining in the senior leadership role of the day to day operations of the franchise, particularly as the front office moves more towards looking out to next year and beyond. It is better to just completely remove him from the building asap and make the interim GM someone you're not planning on necessarily also firing in the offseason.

Quote from: coggs on November 19, 2024, 05:45:00 PMIf I had to guess as to why DeVito over Lock.  I would say it could be one of these four things:  1) Long eval for Devito to shape what they do next year in case they cant get or don't like any of the draft 2) They saw how bad Lock was against the Eagles and decided they'd rather not make everyone puke by watching that.  3) DeVito has looked much better in practice than Lock.  4)  DeVito has the cult-like following and figure we could all use that entertainment in this lost season.

I think it's mainly 2 and 3. I think Lock has looked appallingly bad both in the preseason and the Eagles game, possibly even worse than Jones.

DeVito on the other hand, while obviously not the second coming of Joe Montana, has not looked nearly as bad. He's been a bit more game manager-ish. And while I understand people are attributing some of the Giants' fleeting 2023 success under DeVito to the defensive turnovers, DeVito's actual passing numbers are better than Lock's, which are downright horrendous.

I have no idea why we even brought Lock over. I understand we needed a backup, but he's not worth $5m. He's terrible. There are guys out there who are not on active NFL rosters who are better.

Quote from: coggs on November 18, 2024, 08:29:49 PMHe was 1/2 right so far in that Jones sucks.  We do not yet know if the Giants are indeed better with DeVito at QB. 

To be fair, we also never got a chance to find out whether or not Usain Bolt would have saved the franchise coming in as a wide receiver for us, as BluesCruz repeatedly claimed for a period of time.

Quote from: TDToomer on November 18, 2024, 07:25:50 PMAs expected the national media is barely discussing the benching of the starting QB in the biggest TV market in the league. ESPN briefly mentioned it on sports center and the radio. Don't say it's because we suck because ESPN spends segment after segment talking about the Bears struggles.

I suspect for most of the country this isn't major news, as it was totally expected. Jones has been the worst starting QB in the NFL this year with at least 7 starts if you go by the key stat categories. He was a complete disaster last year too before he got seriously hurt for the fourth time in five seasons. If there is anything about this that is news, it is that it took this franchise this long to move on from him.

People act like it's some total disaster if you draft a QB who doesn't work out. I don't agree with that at all. The disaster is if you incessantly cling to a delusional belief that he is good and remain in total denial for many years, as the Giants did. The Steelers used a first round pick on Kenny Pickett a couple years ago, and after year two they realized and admitted that he stinks, and they moved on. Now, just a year later, they're 8-2, they're in first place in their division, and they're currently vying for the number one seed in the AFC. People who claim a franchise is "screwed" for years if a first round picked QB doesn't work out are lost.

Every team makes mistakes. Smart teams identify mistakes within an acceptable time frame and move on from them. Dumb teams overrate their own talent, make excuses for underperforming players if they happen to like them personally, and then they remain in total denial about them until it becomes so obvious the player sucks that even people who know very little about football are giggling about it.

Quote from: kingm56 on November 18, 2024, 07:05:29 PMWho would realistically trade for Jones with his bloated contract? The man has zero trade value and is unlikely to be a starting quarterback next season. What you fail to understand is that Jones is the primary reason for the current "mess." Instead of his agent demanding the team get him out of this situation, they should be thanking them for giving a quarterback with limited talent a contract he never earned.

Absolutely spot on, Matt.

Jones is one of the great cons not just in the NFL but in all of professional sports over the last decade if not few decades. The guy has been flat out bad, and, incredibly, six years into his career he still has some folks believing he is really good and that his perpetual failure is entirely the fault of others.

I follow all four of the big sports pretty closely, and I cannot recall a longer lasting period of denial about a player than what we have witnessed (and are still witnessing) with Daniel Jones. Good for him for managing to fool multiple NFL GMs and an overly emotional owner for all this time until now. Pretty impressive actually.

In any event, you're 100% correct that he objectively has zero trade value. Obviously they'd trade him now if they could, but they clearly can't, as he is worthless with this ludicrous contract. This was obviously the case in the last offseason too. He became unmovable. His next contract will be peanuts in comparison.

Funny, I'm less embarrassed to be a Giants fan today than I was yesterday.

Although the bar is incredibly low.