Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: sxdxca38 on January 12, 2023, 07:47:41 PMWithout getting into the debate about whether a #1 WR will make a huge impact, as everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I do feel that the more important issue going forward for this team, is to infuse potential pro bowl talent either from the draft or FA into the interior of the offensive line.

Meaning the Center, Left Guard and Right Guard positions.

I believe that will have more of an offensive impact, especially for DJ and Barkley moving forward, than adding a #1 WR at this point.

Ezeudu was a fairly high third round pick. And round 3 is usually a sweet spot for IOL. I dont think they give up adding talent to the position but hopefully Bredeson gets to play one of those spots. Hes been borderline very good in the midst of a lot of sub par play this year from the interior spots. Gates if he is truly back to 100% is a much better option at Center than Feliciano.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 12, 2023, 10:13:52 AMBF, you are certainly free to believe what you want to believe.  I am mindful, like any young team that is on the rise, the cap is going to be consumed in a good way (retaining homegrown talent).  It's likely to start with DJ and Barkley, but soon, the big contract will be going to Thomas, Dexter, and McKenzie.  You should also look at Ed's Giants free agent list.  There are more than a few starters that are free agents who will need to be re-signed or repleaced

Yup Rich I am mindful too which is why I believe it may be 'just' one big contract or two at key need areas in addition to DJ/Saquan. It would put us in very similar situations as the many of the other playoff teams in terms of cap management/allocation.

Guess we'll see and we can leave it at that...

Quote from: Rambo89 on January 12, 2023, 09:46:10 AMJust look at Dallas who had to trade Cooper because of the Elliott cap hit.

Again it's going to come down to Barkley or big money WR.  Which do you choose?

You didnt do the math thats an assumption not based on the numbers at all. Do some due diligence before making a statement. Spend the time do the cap math and report back.

Quote from: TrueBlueFan on January 12, 2023, 09:06:51 AMHe is not a #1, he would be a solid addition to our room, but I would not pay him close to WR1 money.

Im open to all options that could make sense. With that said, if he was added in addition to a true #1 that could work.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 12, 2023, 09:07:53 AMYou have to avoid the illusion of cap space created by looking too far out.  In 2024 there are 14 teams with over a $100 million in cap space.  It's safe to say when teams get close to 2024 those numbers will be drastically smaller.

Is it an illusion to believe that we can add a big contract or 2 in addition to DJ/and Barkley and sign our core guys when their contracts come up?

Ive done the math and its workable very much within the parameters of what many of the competing teams do.

No one is saying go buck wild and sign every big FA on the market here but a potential trade for a bigger money WR (since FA is pretty barren in quality #1 options) and maybe a big fish signing at CB or maybe some other D position is well within our ample cap space parameters without causing some crazy mortaging of the future.

Quote from: Rambo89 on January 12, 2023, 07:01:59 AMAs I said in another thread you have to factor in the Thomas and Lawrence extensions that are coming.  If you want to keep both and build depth you can't be paying your QB, RB and WR all top dollar.

Do the cap math... we can keep those guys and still have money to sign other players.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on January 11, 2023, 10:42:08 PMJust move on.  It will just be 30 more posts in 20 more threads of the same thing.

We have other things we can discuss!

True we could be discussing how Allen Lazard should be our main aquistion at WR this offseason.

Quote from: Trench on January 11, 2023, 08:53:18 PMBF - I think you missed your calling as a GM or capologist. You will pound your fist against the table until the cows come home I'll give u that.

I'm happy with where we are with our WR (in terms of NOT breaking the bank) for a #1. I think Our GM agrees

Trench I was convicted there would be more spending by the team going into Judges second year (though many didn't see it) and I'm convicted they will spend pretty big this offseason. Many teams right now with a big money QB have 3-5 more offensive players making 10 plus million on their payroll. I don't think Schoen goes against the grain here. As far as trades we were definitely in the market for a WR at the deadline. I don't see that being any different this offseason. The question becomes at what price? I am unsure if they would do a 1 even if in the 20s be or 2 or later I believe is definitely something they would do.

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on January 11, 2023, 07:16:02 PM

Are you the peanut gallery?

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 11, 2023, 07:10:24 PMYour cap space number is for 2024.  The 2023 space is about third of that.

Thanks I edited the syntax to clarify.

The point was that you can structure contracts with higher cap hits in year 2 (2024) vs year 1 (2023) because 2024 is an obscenely high 179M cap space vs the still quite high 60-85M (3rd in NFL of 2023 with the high end of 85M after restructures/cuts/extensions if need be)

Mighty Ive always found you to be a man of reason who looked for the answers without letting bias cloud your judgment most of the time. I would ask you to take some time and take a closer look at the overthecap numbers I pointed out for other NFL teams along with our own cap space next year and beyond .  I think you will quickly realize we can most certainly add a big contract or two in addition to Barkley and Jones without it upsetting the apple cart (should we so desire). In fact it would be very much in line with the NFL landscape of many current playoff teams.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 11, 2023, 03:14:11 PMTeams only have so much cap money.  If the Giants decide to re-sign both Jones and Barkley, I think it's fair to say that they will be done with higher-priced free agents.  A number one WR would then have to be drafted rather than signed as a FA or traded for (with the possible exception being a lower-priced WR that can be had for a day 3 pick).

As you and others pointed out a veteran QB sucks up cap space, so teams need to offset that by having some of the other expensive positions, like WR 1, under cheap rookie contracts.

I understand this point and it is very true you cant have monstrous contracts at too many positions on a team but have we fully broken down what this means exactly in NFL cap terms?


-An elite RB is closer to a 10M dollar AAV not a 20M

-All our lineman are sub 10 million dollar contracts (though AT will change that in a year or so)

-Our TEs are not making much at all collectively

-All our WR after we jettison Golladay will be making a pretty low amount collectively even if we resign some combination of Hodgins/ James/ Slayton/ Shepard because none of those guys will command some kind of mega deal deal based on this year or their career performances to date.

If you resign DJ and Barkley , their first year cap hit will likely be around 30-35M combined. 2023 cap space sits around 60M which is 3rd in the entire NFL. It can grow to roughly 72+ with cutting KG post June 1 and then 85+ with a retructure or extension if we so desire. 2024 cap space explodes to 179M (which will decrease a bit with DJ/Barks 2nd year cap hit but it will still be likely pretty well north of 100M) .

After DJ/Barkley potentially resign, only one player will be an 8 digit cap hit on offense (Thomas as 10.2M).


For more perspective, here are a few other teams in 2023 (pretty eye opening numbers):

-Cowboys have 5 offensive players including an WR, RB and QB with a 14M cap hit or more headlined by Dak at 49M for a total of roughly a whopping 119M in cap space.

-Tampa Bay has 6 players including 2WRs , the QB and the RB making 8 million or more headlined by Bradys 35M for a total of around 133M in cap space

-Chiefs have 4 offensive players with an 11M cap hit or more headlined by their QB at 47M for a total of roughly 94M in cap space

-Minnesota our upcoming playoff opponent has 4 offensive players including  a QB at 36M , a WR , a RB and an OL all making 14M or more tying up roughly 90M in cap space.

-Raiders have 5 offensive players (3 in the receiving game) with a 12.5M cap hit or more headlined by Carr at 35M for a total of roughly 94M in cap space

-Bills have 75M tied up in cap amongst 3 players on offense.

In summation: When you look at the NFL landscape combined with what we have currently in future contracts including the likely resigning of Barkley and Jones even if we traded for a big time WR to add to this mix it would not be drastically different in the cap calculus relative to other teams (and a number of playoff ones at that).

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space

Quote from: Rambo89 on January 10, 2023, 07:47:26 PMMajor improvement needed in the passing game.  Can't be in the mid 20's next season.

Yup, Get the WR 1 and that will likely change...

DJ 2022 Stats
- 7th in QBR
- 6th in Comp%
- 1st in Int%
- 21st in Pass TD
- 5th in QB Rush Yards
- Tied for 3rd in QB Run TD
- Tied 2nd in GWD; 3rd in 4Q comebacks
- 69.2% Total offensive yards
- 26th in Sck%
- 25th in pass Y/G

My guess on the contract will somewhere between $32-$35M AAV on either a 3 or 4 year deal with a sizeable amount garanteed...but also structured with a lower year 1 cap hit possiblly sub 20M like Dak Prescott had. To allow us better cap flexibility next year as we look to fortify the roster.

Wow thanks for finding that.