Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Messiah717 on November 20, 2024, 10:55:31 AMIt's not often someone would say follow the Jets lead.  But if this franchise is serious about leaving the dumps you clean house.  I don't see the benefits of one more terrible year with this regime. 

In order for this to be true, they also need to dump Rodgers and all his toys. Which they very well might do.

But part of their undoing has been the failed strategy of bringing in a past-his-prime QB, handing him all the power (over the coaches, over personnel de onions), and then still failing after giving the "savior" everything he asked for.

From that perspective, I absolutely hope we do not follow their lead.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 01:25:14 PMPlayers just want to win.  You get a sense in Dex's comments that he doesn't feel this move achieves that goal and will likely achieve the opposite.  Players have comparatively short careers, so they don't have the luxury of lost seasons, and they view the draft as the means for teams to find cheaper replacements for them.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you make several leaps in order to infer Dex's true feelings.

You're assuming that by saying he doesn't like the move, it has something to do with performance or winning. There is no evidence of that. There is, however, evidence in the rest of the comments that Dex views DJ as a brother, and so an inference based on the facts at hand would lead one to assume that Dex doesn't like someone who he considers family to be losing his job.

Further, we have no idea the depths of Dex's loyalty or his motivations. He very well could be willing to ride out the season with DJ, wins / losses be damned, solely because he thinks DJ's earned it based on what he's done for the organization.

Either way, any opinions on Dex's feelings or tone are all conjecture.

Quote from: coggs on November 18, 2024, 08:19:20 PMAre you insinuating that teams picking ahead of the Giants have the option to decline to trade down with the Giants just because the Giants fans are saying Schoen has to trade up regardless of cost?  Interesting.

LOL. Right?!? It's crazy to me how fans treat draft trade-ups or trades, in general.

"I can't believe Schoen didn't trade McKinney!" Who was going to give up real assets for someone they could just sign in the offseason.

"I can't believe Schoen didn't trade Ojulari!" The Falcons offered a 6th. The same fans slamming Schoen for not making fantasyland trades are the same ones who would be slamming him if he settled for the realistic returns available.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 18, 2024, 07:27:53 AMThis is why I objected to the idea that the Giants were 2nd in the overall draft order, due to the bye.  No game played and they dropped back to 5th

So here is the latest top of the draft, among teams with three wins or fewer:

1. Jaguars, 2-9

2. Titans, 2-8

3. Browns, 2-8

4. Raiders, 2-8

5. Giants, 2-8

6. Patriots, 3-8

7. Jets, 3-8

8. Panthers, 3-7

9. Cowboys, 3-6

(The Titans, Browns, and Raiders have the strength-of-schedule tiebreaker over the Giants, which is why they're ahead of them. Might the Giants have to offer a huge haul to trade up to No. 1?)

Where they are right now is meaningless with games still to play.

Quote from: MrGap92 on November 18, 2024, 08:25:22 AMThat is the ideal situation.

If they have to trade up to get their guy, do it.

The Raiders and Browns could very well lose out the rest of the season and be picking ahead of us.

Why would 2 teams - who are as desperate or more than we are for a franchise QB - trade out of their spot and lose their chance to select a QB?

They won't. Plain and simple. It's going to come down reaching for Milroe or taking someone like Will Johnson.

Reaching for a QB is how we got to this position, and I'm not interested in doing it again. Load up on BPA and take a QB later in the draft.

I get it. I get so worked up about it because it gets at the heart of one of this organization's biggest issues.

Let's worry about putting a winning product on the field before we worry about marketing.

Quote from: Trench on November 17, 2024, 03:19:14 PMTo be fair, there is also a possibility the kid could make the organization a TON of $$$$ in advertising and marketing etc. in todays NFL that's another component to consider

Why should we, as fans, give a sh*t about marketing and advertising? It's this type of thinking that has allowed Mara to look at his greatly increased team valuation of late and consider the last decade to have been a success.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 12, 2024, 01:42:54 AMQuintessential Guide to College Qbs the next 2 years.

2025 Draft

1. Sheddur Sanders Colorado- The best part of Sanders game is easily his processing of the field, and his understanding of defensive concepts. He has pre snap control over the offense with protections and play calls, and is already elite with his eyes and identify leverage advantages. Footwork needs work, but his accuracy at the short and intermediate is excellent. Navigates the pocket well, has a solid build, and doesn't put the ball in harms way despite the pressure he gets with the bad Colorado Oline. He will be a 23 year old rookie, and will need time to adjust, but Pat Shurmer has him running a pro style offense which will benefit him.

2. Cam Ward Miami- Kid has insane Arm talent, the best raw Arm talent since Josh Allen. He can abuse defenses at all 3 levels with ease, but his decision making and mechanics can fail him under pressure. I have noticed that no matter where he throws the ball it comes out the same speed which is concerning. The only thing that really concerns me with Ward is the same issue that I had with Caleb Williams last year, he holds the ball entirely too long trying to play hero ball. Under pressure he breaks down and isn't the same kid. The competition he's faced like Sanders will come into question. Each played at Incarnate Ward/Jackson St before going to Washington St/Miami and Colorado.

3. Jalen Milroe Alabama- Like Sanders and Ward before him, Milroe stands around 6'2 220lbs. He initially backed up Bryce Young, and only did designed runs/packages, but took over last year. His one cut agility and explosiveness is elite by any metric. Would immediately be a top 3 running Qb in the NFL day one. He has Elite Arm Strength, equal to that of Josh Allen. His off platform and angled throws are amazing at times. The long game is excellent, and he has gotten better with the intermediate and short game. Has a lot to learn about footwork, mechanics, and layering the football. It's not that he can't do those things, he's simply extremely raw and will need time, and a good coach. His legs and long ball will bring him to the dance while he learns everything else.

4. Jaxson Dart Ole Miss- At times Dart with his Arm Strength, ability to run, and moxy flash Elite Qb. Dart can read defenses, and takes complete control of his offense moreso than any Qb on this list currently. He has great touch, can layer with the best, and run a multitude of offensive schemes with his diversity. He still needs to work on his ball placement on deep routes, and sliding instead of trying to truck people, but he is an intriguing prospect that will only grow as the season comes to an end.

5. Garrett Nussmeier LSU- Is a Giant question mark and I don't know that I would want my team drafting such an unknown. He's been in college 4 years and is finally playing as a senior. He started off hot but has cooled off recently. His pocket awareness is next level, but that might be the only quality currently. His decision making, ball placement, and locking onto first reads is a serious concern no matter the arm talent you see from him.

6. Drew Allar Penn St- At 6'5 241lbs Allars elite physical tools are the equivalent of a player you'd create on Madden, he has everything you could want. He's the blueprint talent wise that all teams covet, but it all hasn't clicked yet. I think a lot of that especially in 2022 was on Penn St as he virtually had zero help with any skill players, and it's more of the same this year. Isn't as quick as he seems, can be to methodical at times. He also needs to work on his arm control. If this kid goes to the right situation then he could be something. Having time to develop will decide his future in the NFL.

7. Quinn Ewers Texas- The otherworldly High School prospect that couldn't beat out Stroud so he moved back to Texas. His first year in Texas was mediocre, and despite Analysts praising Texas' offense last year, he underwhelmed when you consider the elite NFL talent he had at WR, RB, and TE. So far this year we've seen Elite Ewers, and Daniel Jones Ewers depending on the game. I don't know that he's built to hold up in the NFL. When he is on, his arm talent, decision making, and pocket awareness is next level. He is undisciplined and lazy at times, likely playing on pure talent and little else. If he was consistent in his execution then he would be a top 3 pick, however he isn't and the big question right now is why?

8. Kurtis Rourke Indiana- His brother Nathan is currently a star in the CFL and Kurtis would likely be the number 1 overall pick in the CFL tomorrow. The kid racked up honors everywhere in the MAC before coming to Indiana and leading their resurgence this year. Kid is always good for 250 yards and 4 tds every year on the ground and has been good but not great throwing the ball. He's very efficient but nothing really jumps off the page. He has a lot of talent that I don't think had been unlocked yet but he will be 25 during jis rookie year. Great 2nd string Qb potential.

9. Carson Beck Georgia- The curse of Georgia making pedestrian QBs seem better than they are strikes again. He came into the season as QB1 and has fallen to mid round prospect. His completion percentage has dropped 7 points since last year, and doubling his Int totals with several games left to play. Prototypical size, but lacks any agility, or timing. I never thought he was a guy, but him completely crumbling this season reinforces a lot of what most were already seeing. Nothing elite or special, was elevated last year by a generational TE, defense, and multiple great Wrs. This season he can't elevate all the 5 stars around him which is alarming.

10. Dillon Gabriel Oregon- A dual threat steady hand, who will turn 25 during his rookie year. Gabriel can run, throw, and lead an offense very well. He's undersized, lacks arm talent, and has a very capped ceiling. I would say he's a more mobile, better thrower version of Bo Nix with less upside. A disciplined and accurate passer that tends to stare down his Wrs and will be limited by his 6"0 height and frame.

The rest:
Brady Cook, Riley Leonard, Miller Moss, Donovan Smith, Will Howard, Noah Fifta, Diego Pavia, and Taylen Green.

Darkhorses:

Diego Pavia Vandy- Some people you watch play and say wow that's a football player. That's Diego Pavia, he stands 5'11 and nothing about him pops off the screen as elite. He is the definition of a gamer, all this kid wants to do is win. He looks more like a Rb and welcomes contact, and throws lasers in the short to intermediate.  His long game needs a lot of work but in a Read option offense he could be Electric. He excells is making quick decisions either throwing it in the short/intermediate or tucking it and running. He Is the new Pitbull version of Taysom Hill. You could draft this kid and play him anywhere on offense, or have a package for him at Qb. I mean the kid has Vandy with their best season in forever.

Taylan Green Arkansas- This kid year 1 as a starter is the only reason Arkansas hasn't lost every game. The kid has a rocket for an arm and Elite explosiveness. At 6"6 240lbs he runs a 4.3 forty and  has been clocked at 23 mph regularly. His vision on extended plays is next level and he has gotten better every year. Arkansas is a Dumpster fire but this kid right now is Joe Milton, if Joe Milton could run like Lamar Jackson. Could be an intriguing late round flier that could pay off with the right staff.

**Will edit/add the 2026 draft class tomorrow.

Feel free to add your own perception of each Qb or add a Qb you may think is worthy of looking at. Like currently I'm looking at Noah Fifta of Arizona as an underrated prospect.

Awesome stuff! As we've discussed on other threads, our evaluations of this year's class is pretty well aligned.

I'm glad to see Rourke on your list. I agree that there's some untapped potential there. And while some may see his age as a detriment, I see it differently.

I think his age will cause him to be undervalued and fall in the draft, making his selection in the 4th or 5th to be great value. And I also see him as being in a better position to step right in next year than some of the younger prospects.

Because I like the 2026 and 2027 classes more, I'd much rather have someone like Rourke be the bridge QB (vs. a vet retread). Much higher upside and won't require a big contract like our current backup QB.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 11, 2024, 07:00:17 PMJust to clarify people including myself are mentioning waiting for 2026 class not just for Arch, there are a lot of really good and intriguing QB prospects like Nico Lamaleava, Lanorris Sellers, Jaden Rashada, Malachi Nelson, Dante Moore, and Avery Johnson.

So while Arch is likely the clickbait, the class in 2026 is significantly better than this upcoming class. Then you get Dylan Raiola, Austin Simmons etc in 2027.

Exactly right!

What would be foolish, though, as the OP put it, would be to reach for subpar talent from the class of 2025 for the sake of immediacy. Isn't that exactly how we wound up with the past 6 years of failure?

Quote from: Philosophers on November 11, 2024, 09:27:08 AMMilroe is way more like Jalen Hurts or Kyler Murray as passer/runner, not Anthony Richardson who has no history of passing.

I guess that partially speaks to my concern. I don't consider Hurts much of a passer, either. He's highly overrated in that regard.

Kyler is a MUCH better passer than Hurts, Milroe, etc.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on November 11, 2024, 12:55:58 AMKid works hard, Tom Brady has been training the kid since middle school. Does he make a lot of commercials, and ads with his dad yes, but now everyone that age does social media etc. Remember when everyone thought Thibs was going to be a problem because he did socials, and was outspoken, or Nabers with his stuff. Both have been model citizens so far besides an over blown concert. If the kid has game we need him.

For the record regarding Qbs-

Cam Ward has issues, kid holds the ball waaayyyy to long for me and I dont think he processes the field fast enough. Compared to last years Qbs he would be somewhere in that JJ Mccarthy/Penix range.

Sheddur Sanders currently by far the best Qb prospect but not the best Qb in college.

Carson Beck is a flop, he broke like Daniel Jones and there is no fixing him. Guy went from 1st overall pick to late 3rd/4th range.

Jaxson Dart is the best Qb in college right now, and all the stats back that up. The best college Qb might not be the best pro prospect. I think he has the best back shoulder throw in college, isn't scared to go deep, intermediate, or just take off. The big hang up for most is him playing in a lane kiffin offense.

Quinn Ewers is an Enigma, some times he looks amazing, and other times he doesn't.

Jalen Milroe has been elite at times, and just good at other times. He's just an elite athlete that happens to play Qb kinda like Lamar.

Completely fine with selling the number 1 or 2 pick for a kings ransom, and then sign a vet, and go all in for next year.

 I'd also be on bored with trading our top pick for a ransom and drafting one of the qbs that falls to the 2nd like Milroe or maybe Dart late 2nd early 3rd while you save assets. Then in a year if they hit like Lamar, Hurts etc or if it doesn't hit you still roll into next offseason with the opportunity to get your guy, with all the assets.

Good write-up! I agree with a lot of it.

The biggest issue with Sanders is his HEAVY focus on his brand. It's funny you mention Thibs. I was never worried with Thibs being an off-the-field problem because of his focus on his brand. My concern was always on whether it would distract him on the field. And while we don't know with certainty what's caused it, his play has certainly been a disappointment.

Agree 100% on Ward holding the ball too long. That will not work at all in the NFL, and processing / delivering much faster is not something you just change overnight, especially when the stakes are higher against better competition.

Also agree that Beck is a mess. Would maybe take a flyer on him in the middle rounds but he's not a day 2 pick any more.

I'm just not sold on Dart. Can't quite put my finger on what it is - maybe it is the Kiffen effect - but I just don't like his chances to succeed in the NFL. He gives me the same feeling I had with Sam Bradford.

Agree completely with Ewers. He's always intrigued me the most, but don't like how he disappears, at times.

I'm down on Milroe big time. Maybe it's unfair, but the whole Anthony Richardson disaster leaves me questioning that prototype.

If we could get a monster haul from the Jets or Saints and move down to 8 or 9, I'd be totally fine with that. Land a CB, OG, DT, and draft someone like Kurtis Rourke in the 4th. Then have an extra 1st and 2nd the following year as ammo to get your QB in a better class.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 11, 2024, 07:34:44 AMThe reason I say that is because they are 2nd by virtue of 3 other teams already having their bye.  The Giants may lose draft position next week without any action on their part.

I get that. But what might happen next week has nothing to do with "as of right now". The OP was accurate in stating that today, we are at #2 without any qualifiers.

Quote from: files58 on November 10, 2024, 09:13:52 PMThinking the same way, get as close to #1 as possible. Try to harvest rounds 1-3 picks. Schoen so far has had a very good 2024 draft. Maybe he needed time to build his own type of draft/scouting teams in personnel and technology. So far I'm not in love with any of the considered to be top pick QB's.

Certainly can't expect Schoen to hit back-to-back HRs, but can you imagine if he did?

Starting WR, S, CB, RB, TE this year. Maybe starting QB, OG, CB, replacement for Ojulari, swing OT next year?

Nailing 2 drafts in a row is how you significantly shorten a rebuild.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 10, 2024, 07:55:52 PMI think it's more accurate to consider them currently between 2 and 5, because they could be as low as 5 before they play again.

How is that more accurate? The post title is "As of right now ..."

As of right now, the Giants are accurately in the #2 spot.

Quote from: LennG on November 10, 2024, 01:23:14 PMWhy? It was a great call. We simply have a QB who can't capitalize on this play.

We all don't have to agree on it, but I think it's fair to question that play call on 3rd and 1 when you have a ineffective QB and an OL that has given up 16 sacks in last 4 games.

It's reasonable to think that a trick play that takes a long time to develop and requires a QB to make an accurate read + a good throw was less likely to succeed than a running play.