Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on August 05, 2023, 07:08:38 PMAnd that was just a trotting type speed for him.

He is dusting DBs running on 2nd gear.  Imagine when he is motivated to pour it against another team (IE Dallas week 1).

I want him to go for 2 deep tds catching safeties flat footed and putting the league on notice that he and the Giants offense are for real this season.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 19, 2023, 10:42:17 AMCowherd has always been real with his opinion and can you blame him? Until the last 5 games can you say Jones was really wowing anyone, I can't. Yes he has flourished the past 5 games and Cowherd acknowledges that but doesn't ignore the past 3 1/2 years of football, he also sees the Daboll effect especially on Josh Allen now that he's not there and realizes coaching is a real thing. There is no denying Jones is playing like a fringe top 10 Qb right now but those games were against the Commanders who he is always comfortable with, a dysfunctional Colts teams, and a Vikings team with the worst passing D twice. He still did what was asked but to act like he's now the end all be all for beating bad teams and calling out critics is a little rushed. Do I think he's the immediate future yes, but the beginning and middle of this season were still huge question marks about him as a Qb. I'm glad he's come on, but we can't all act like he was doing this all season because he wasn't, yes he was taking care of the ball but our 1st half offense was nonexistent for most of the season besides the Jacksonville game, and we had trouble Sustaining a drive much less multiple, so I'm excited for his growth, and glad it's showing, but still think we can be a little grounded in realizing that he just started flashing a hand full of games ago and before that he was definitely still a question mark.

My gripe with Cowherd is basically he is saying that DJ is nothing but an "average" type player - athleticism and arm talent wise.

He's always had that talent because if not they would not be calling design runs for him.  He's shown us that even his rookie year - his legs has always been a part of his skillset.  Arm talent wise, wouldn't you agree that DJ has at least above average arm talent?  Just the throws he made vs the Vikes - that sideline throw to Hodgins sliding to his left or even that throw to Slayton at the corner of the endzone.  Dan pointed out in their breakdown with Nick that he put the a catachable ball for Slayton to make a play without having his feet set to step into the throw.  If we had a stud WR that may even be 6.

What DJ has not had is competent coaching and it shows on the tape.  There were plays where the defense were baiting DJ into throws that might lead to turnovers and he simply looked away.  Not forcing the ball or trying to play hero ball in the endozne on a close game.  Even taking the sack while trying to milk the clock to end the game - those are high IQ plays for him.  That's what this coaching staff has developed into DJ.

Has DJ reached his ceiling?  I would argue not yet.  Let's keep in mind we are still in year 1 of a new offensive scheme and with sub standard talent at WR.  Our offense can only continue to get better when we get more pieces to run the scheme and with better familiarity with the scheme.

Quote from: Rambo89 on January 19, 2023, 06:58:32 AMWith how Jones, Lawrence and Thomas are playing I'm not sure they'll be able to keep Barkley let alone sign Higgins.  Wouldn't shock me if Lawrence got close to Aaron Donald money and Jones with how he's playing is going to be in that $35-$40 million AAV range.  Giants best bet for a WR is going to have to come via the draft, IMO.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space

2023 might have little to none wiggle room, but if you look at the 2024 cap space, that's about 179.8M workable cap space.  Let say DJ and Saquon take up about 50-53M AAV, we would have about 124.8M still available. 

https://overthecap.com/position/left-tackle
Top salary for LT is 23M and 31M for DT, that's 54M AAV if we retain those 2. 

This is where Joe will have to work his magic.  If he can manage to negotiate with our homegrown talent and take team friendly deals even at 10% discount - that's 100M for our 4 top players.  That's 79.8M alloted for the rest of the roster.  Hopefully, as what we have seen thus far, the general tendency is that the overall cap space has risen over time which should offset the big hit those guys will take in our the team's cap.

And like I said, at this time, trading for Higgins is a pipe dream that's if we don't take a WR in the early rounds.

Quote from: sxdxca38 on January 18, 2023, 11:15:19 PMSadly, not only is it Nick Wright, but also Colin Cowherd has just come out and said DJ is only a C QB at best.

Not even a C+ or B-, but only a C.

Obviously, he is entitled to his opinion, but DJ is the 7th ranked QB in QBR and 13th in RTG.

He also dismisses his 7 rushing TD's, and over 700 yards rushing.

In any event, I used to like Cowherd, but I'm starting to lose respect for his opinion.

Here is the link to the show down below, let's see what happens Saturday night

Cowherd


 

Goes to show you they don't really watch the games.  If they did this clown would clearly see we've really opened up the playbook like a month ago.  It's ok if they keep harping at DJ's stats and argue that we won't be a playoff team next year.  DJ is more than happy to serve these clowns some crow and humble pie.

Imagine Wan'Dale and possibly another stud WR in this offense.  I know it's a pipe dream, but imagine if Schoen trades for Higgins since the Bengals can't pay him, Burrow and Chase at the same time?  That quick shot in the back of the endzone, if that's Higgins catching the ball thats a TD.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 16, 2023, 04:46:19 PMhttps://twitter.com/danschneiernfl/status/1615027970497708033

If we have a WR like Metcal, DHop, JJ, Diggs thats 6 right there

Quote from: TDToomer on January 16, 2023, 06:24:27 PMExactly. Who the hell is Nick Wright and why should we care about his opinion? I have never heard of him.

Kurt Warner said the Giants should lose by 14 points on the NFL Network pregame coverage yesterday. I await his apology.

Kurt is just bitter he had to give way to Eli 

Quote from: sxdxca38 on January 16, 2023, 05:18:26 PMI take that back, Nick Wright has decided to double down on his position that DJ is still not a good QB.

He then proceeds to say he only threw 15 TDs on the year, and completely dismisses the 7 rushing TD's he brought to the table.

You can see the clip here, if you go to the 3:10 time stamp

Nick Wright clip

That's the problem, people actually listen to this clown and believes he makes a fair assessment.

This clown is the same guy who argued that Lawrence rookie year doesn't count because of who was his head coach last year and should be given rookie of the year this year.

Who has been coaching DJ the past 2 years before Daboll/Kafka got here that actually made him regressed instead of develop as a young player.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on January 16, 2023, 10:24:37 AMI think it'll be fair negotiating with Jones having had 1 good season out of 4 with the injury history and knowing that daboll/kafka pair is a huge part of it, I would think him and Barkley both take less to stay in help build the team up to compete long term.

I'm thinking this as well.  Those 2 are practically the face of this franchise.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on January 16, 2023, 07:54:59 AMTwo years ago Josh Allen signed a 6 year $258mm ($43mm/yr) contract with a $150mm guarantee. Since the numbers go up each year, if we are price-insensitive, that could easily be the number with Jones, maybe more. Would you be good with spending that type of money on him given he has only really played at this high of a level for several games and has only had one season out of four where he has not had a significant injury? Keep in mind, barring cap acrobatics that would wipe out most of our available cap space for next season and we do have plenty of other needs.

Personally, I think if we give him that type of contract, we're going to need to think long and hard about cutting Williams. Or possibly having a rethink about Barkley. I know nobody wants to think about these types of decisions, but something will have to give somewhere. To let either Thomas or Lawrence walk next year would be a travesty.

IF we retain DJ and Saquon which is most likely going to eat up 50M annually, looking forward to 2024, we have about 179.8 M in cap space.  We should have about 125M in cap space leftover taking into consideration what they are going to eat up in the cap which is not too bad really.

I would put a base salary for DJ of 30M with incentives in the contract that if meets annually, can hit up to around 40M which is now the avg. salary for the upper tier of QBs.

Quote from: MightyGiants on January 05, 2023, 07:24:00 PM@kingm56

If all you are looking for is a top-10 QB, it appears Daniel Jones is your man.   Considering DJ is in (along with all his teammates)  a first-year system.   PFF has the Giants ranked 18th in pass protection and 27th in receiving.  Yet despite these handicaps, DJ is currently.

QBR- 9

QB rating- 13

PFF- 14th (50% snaps)

On top of that, he has led his team to the playoffs. 

With all of that, I have a hard time not seeing how he won't be top 10 next season. (assuming the Giants add some talent)

You can also add

#6 in EPA
#1 in INT %

Considering the lack of "playmakers" he's had to work with.

Disclaimer
I put "playmakers" loosely here since Hodgins has been a breath of fresh air in this offense but did we really expect a practice squad player to come in here and be DJs safety blanket.

Hodgins is a crafty WR and knows how to create space.  However he is not that stud that is going to run sub 4.4 that will blow the top off any defense.

Quote from: T200 on January 03, 2023, 09:35:22 PMI picture a guy losing over 6 figures in a casino and on his way out the door, he takes his last 20 and puts in in a slot and hits for 10 grand. 

Perfect analogy

Quote from: Blue Fire on January 03, 2023, 07:02:43 PMJordan Raanan- DJ debate is over after Giants clinch playoffs

This Giants' new regime was always a fan of Jones. They liked his physical skills and makeup. But they still needed him to prove it on the field in order for them to want to commit to anything in the future. A team source said this summer they would have been open to an in-season extension or the franchise tag if he played well this year. The latter now realistically seems on the table.

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/64194/the-daniel-jones-debate-is-over-after-giants-clinch-playoffs

About 4 years after the 2019 draft, we all can argue that the Giants walked away with the best QB in that draft class.

Not for nothing, but I can see Gettleman with a smile on his face saying to the naysayers, I told you so.

Not sure if it's posted around here, a good breakdown of the Giants offense

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1meJvExzaVSN6lbKhUsWqF?si=AxmSR6S9Q1uvWLVL9QC08Q&t=2460

It's around the 41 minute mark

Quote from: Blue Fire on January 02, 2023, 01:57:34 PMWild if this reporter knows what he is talking about....

But Daboll also knew this: He needed to test Jones' mental toughness.

So, when training camp began, he devised a plan. As one source close to the coach explained, Daboll purposely structured practice for Jones to fail and Taylor to succeed.

"He wanted Daniel Jones to deal with the adversity," this source explained. "He wanted to see how he dealt with it on a daily basis. And he passed it with flying colors. So, I know he loves Daniel Jones.

"He loves Daniel Jones. He loves him."

Practices are always scripted. Daboll would tell defensive coordinator Don "Wink" Martindale which plays he'd be running when Jones was in the game, this source explains, and had Martindale call defensive plays that'd intentionally work. And when Taylor entered? Exact opposite. Plays were scripted on both sides to set him up for success.

Jones did not flinch. Daboll was thrilled.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/is-daniel-jones-the-future

Banks mentions it in their segment about what they were doing during training camp to test the mental make up of DJ.  It's around the 16 minute mark.

He's become more comfortable and looked more in command of the offense compared to week 1.  With a year under his belt and possibly an upgrade in talent in offseason to grow more rapport with the WRs staying - if the Giants do keep Jones, I can see them opening up more the passing game and with progression from the young guys in the oline, possibly take more shots down the field.

https://youtu.be/kX3li-BPakk

Quote from: Slugsy-Narrows on January 01, 2023, 07:34:37 PMThis isn't a time for told ya so people!

Don't get ahead of your skis or you will fall face first!

DJ had a great game against a bad team!

No one knows what JS wants, what DJ wants and there is a lot that goes in between.

So instead of gloating falsely and banging your chest, enjoy the win and let's keep looking forward TOGETHER

I agree.  I support DJ but I want to see how he does the next two weeks especially in the playoffs which most likely will be the 49ers.  The Niners will be a good litmus test of how deep we can make a run in the playoffs especially against that stout and stingy defense.

Does he have another gear that he can elevate his play and as well as put the team on his back when the game is on the line - just like Eli. 

What kind of progression can he make in the offseason year 2 under Dabes/Kafka's system with possibly better WRs.  We need to draft a stud WR and hopefully with Hodgins, a healthy Robinson, Bellinger to see how we expand the passing game next season.  Hopefully the line - particularly the pass blocking gets better.

*CORRECTION*
Just saw the standings - there may be a good chance we face the Vikings again.  I like our chances against them.