Big Blue Huddle

There is no way Daboll and Schoen should be drafting this coming draft. They should be gone by then. It's time to wave bye to them as well.

There is unhappiness in the Giants locker room. How can there be when the team is 2-8. Their starting QB just got benched for everyone's failures not just his. You have players who now know that this current regime doesn't value contracts and word given. Lock left Seattle on the word he will be given a chance to compete for the starting job. They jumped him in the order of operation. You have a GM who is losing players and getting nothing in return and they are the teams best players. Then you have still to date the best players in the team are still Gettleman players Lawrence, Thomas and Slayton. While Nabers is up and coming he seems to be a whimsical character player. They Daboll and Schoen have nothing to hang their hat on. You have a coach knowing he has an injured kicker doesn't carry one and cost them a game. Then you have him attempt ridiculous 2 point plays. He is a terrible coach all around can't keep his coordinators around always looking to throw someone other than him under the bus players won't trust that guy that's for sure.
The Giants as a whole have a-toxic environment. What free agent is going to take Schoen's word after Lock. I know money talks but the good ones get offers from everywhere.

The fight was a set up from the beginning it was a money maker for both. It's well known Mike hasn't been good since he left the Catskills for Don King. His worst decision he has ever made.

Quote from: T200 on November 15, 2024, 08:46:55 AMWhat evidence do you have to support that statement?

There is so much evidence of a lack of vision. Schoen has depleted one area to get better another. Which basically is shooting yourself in the foot. The Giant defense has a good secondary in 2022 only to lose players to other team. Now we have a secondary that lacks ball hawking skills and they have zero interceptions 10 games in. He improved the Defensive Line and lead the league in sacks but there is no balance. Basically you have given up interceptions for sacks. There is suppose to be balance. The Giant offense sucks we all know it. Knowing that they wanted to get rid of DJ yet they gave him a contract where is the vision in that. They franchise tag Barkley let him walk right to a divisional rival when he could have dumped him for a 4-5 round pick to some other team out there. We have no superstars from his regime his best two players are still Gettleman players. Lawrence and Andrew Thomas. Believe what you want but Gettleman players got the team to the playoffs in 2022. Since then he has dismantled the secondary added his player to it. He picked poorly the two pick top picks he has had in KT and Neal or Schoen just doesn't have the vision to get the best help for his picks to achieve what he believes they are capable of.
I don't think Schoen has displayed that he is a visionary. Asides from Nabers and Tracey the other picks haven't been good. You can blame the QB for it but we will find out now if it was him or the coach. And don't give me Daboll is working with DeVito or Lock BS because that is part of Schoen's vision and this will speak volumes about our so called QB whisperer.

This is why you fire the GM. He should have traded Barkley when he had a chance. To have him in the same division and tormenting the Giants is borderline sabotage on the GM's part. What Schoen lacks is a vision for the Giants and that is one of the General Manager's biggest goals.

Watching the game Eagles vs Commanders. Hearing the Eagles fans saying thank you Giants for Barkley. If that isn't reason enough to fire Schoen. I don't know what is. He built the damn Eagles for a championship run if they win another Super Bowl he should be shown the door. Same for Daboll.

Canty is 100% correct both the GM and HC need to be gone. Let's start with the GM the team made the playoffs in 2022 since that time the GM has managed to make the secondary worse by not resigning players. The best players on the team are still Gettleman players. This team has significantly gotten worse. The draft picks while some have shown promise like Tracey, Nabers majority have underperformed. His handling of DJ and Barkley contracts have been terrible. The team has totally regressed under his tenure.
Daboll is a horrible coach his tenure throughout the his entire NFL career hasn't been good. Asides from his time in Buffalo where he was OC and two of his seasons were outstanding. The arrival of Dorsey changed Allen's game and took it to another level. I happen to think Allen was just a good QB and was getting better and possibly just hitting his stride. Nothing to do with Daboll or Dorsey. Allen has continued to play well even after their departure. Daboll was made to look good as most of Allen's plays come off broken plays and him run and creating on his own to make things happen which again says a lot about Allen more than the coach.

As far as Daboll on the Giants he has been nothing but a failure. Player development hasn't been good, players have regressed under his tenure. Play calls haven't been good some calls have me shaking my head every time in red zone you get a gimmick play instead of just playing straight up they don't even attempt a pass into the end zone on most occasions. The QB gets some blame but not all. He is here as a QB whisperer a guru of some sort but he isn't and has never been. He has a list of QB failures he has destroyed more QBs than built up. His only claim to fame is Allen. Honestly speaking even if they move on from DJ do you want to see Daboll near the next QB they draft. I wouldn't want him anywhere near any QB. He has had multiple offensive coordinator gigs and his teams were never ranked high again asides from Buffalo they also sported the better defenses which tends to inflate offensive numbers. His offense before Buffalo has always been below average averaging 15-18 points a game. Let's not forget Daboll has tendency to throw coaches under the bus Wink and Kafka, both have gotten worse defense and offense.
Canty is absolutely right in want these two gone. They haven't done enough to improve the Giants in the three years they have been here.

We haven't had a good coach since Coughlin left. The QB is a reflection of the coach and his style. Overall the Giants have been bad I don't think many QBs would thrive in this environment that the Giants have created.

A franchise QB can make a difference but it's not everything. You need a steady coach with a plan a good defense, good offensive line and a decent QB to win.

We have what is a coach with a wish list, a make shift Offensive Line and a porous defense that disappears after the giants score Almost guaranteed that they will give up points in the next possession. The bend but don't break defense is trash and that is what giants play.

As for QB I think Jones showed he can be clutch in 2022 he lead drives to finish games.

The Giants have lousy coach and after his fist 7 games has been awful. He doesn't coach what he has instead. That is the wish list coach always going to find someone to blame. It has been proven he is an offensive guru time and time again. You can't blame QB for an awful coach with an inability to get the best out of his team.

Quote from: todge on November 07, 2024, 10:35:01 PMI disagree. None of us really know the actual reasons why the offense is not being productive.  There's not enough evidence to put it all on Jones and his supposed limited skills as you infer.

Jones threw 24 TD passes in 12 games his rookie year under Shurmur. He was three passes away from breaking NFL rookie records until a bad high ankle sprain and injuries to key offensive players stopped the offense. He has the NFL arm talent to make any throw.

So rather than pin this issue just on Jones, I have a conglomeration of things to consider:

First - teams are playing two deep safeties across the league. Mel Kiper is calling on the league to ban this defense because teams are resorting to short and intermediate passes which is what the defense is giving them.

Second - Daboll knows full well his OL is among the league's worst in pass protection. The Pittsburgh game was the greatest example - 7 hits, 10 hurries, 10 hits. There isn't a QB around who can go through his progressions with that. So instead Jones has to look for his primary target only. Daboll knows his OL sucks as well, so he has to call short/intermediate passes with such limited pocket time. As George Young stated many times "show me a struggling team and I'll show you a team with a struggling offensive line".
 
Third - the weapons are limited. The Giants couldn't get a 4th or a 5th round pick for Slayton. He is a bottom tier #2 receiver on this team with questionable hands. Robinson is the Z but brings little to the table in YAC and reliability. Nabers is double teamed every play. The tight ends are again bottom tier. Theo has dropped so many passes and is just learning the position. Bellinger is a no show.

Fourth - play calling is questionable. How many times have any of us called the plays ahead of time? When I watch the 49ers, there are all kinds of misdirection and schemes especially in the red zone.

Fifth - bad teams find different ways to lose games. Besides the QB, there are 21 other players, coaches, officials and breaks that affect the outcome of these games. DJ rose to 12th in QBR in the league after being "locked in" games 2-4. After the Pittsburgh debacle, he was the best player on the field for the Giants in the Washington game. 20-26 with three drops and a nullified TD due to a bogus call resulting in an elite 91.5 PFF score. The defense lost that game allowing them to punt only twice with no pressure on Daniels.

So many of you truly believe if we just change the QB, all will be well. If the Giants had their way, they would have traded up for Drake Maye. There would be no Nabers nor either Nubin or Tracy. Maye has been terrible in New England. So would the Giants be better this year with Maye? I would suggest no.

I agree it's time for Jones to go. He doesn't deserve the treatment he's receiving from just about everyone. But a cautionary tale - your team will not automatically be better with a rookie QB. It might actually be worse. Be careful ... you might get what you wish for.


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Remember also people wanted to run Tom Coughlin out of town and we are still looking for his replacement.

I'm surprised Jaxson Dart isn't in that list. He should be on that list his numbers are very good. His average yards per completion is 11 yards. 3200 yards and 20-3 Touchdowns to interceptions. How is he not on the list.

Quote from: T200 on November 07, 2024, 08:19:57 AMThey also have a QB who has excellent pocket presence and awareness, protects the ball, is very decisive and deliberate without taking more time than is needed to deliver the ball.

The same way a solid pass rush helps the secondary so they don't have to cover as long, a QB who delivers the ball quickly helps the offensive line so they don't have to block as long.

I think Tyrod and Danny DeVito would disagree. They would tell you the receivers led the league in lack of separation. They were given the least amount of time to throw. There was a massive drop in OL play from the previous year. The injury to Thomas on opening day didn't help matters. There was no quality in OL depth they were literally calling people to play OL off their couch.

I think this team has regressed in many facets of the game. First of all the offensive line has improved but there is still a lack of depth in that area. The receiving has gotten better with Nabers but that is about it I still think Robinson is too small and is like the 4th option, Slayton is who he is. TE has potential to be really good but it's an under utilized part of the offense in Daboll system. Running back position with Tracey looks very capable. The topic that everyone discusses is QB. I might be the only one who thinks Jones is not bad. I believe that the offense they are trying to put around him doesn't fit him. I honestly think he is a gun slinger there is little bit of sloppiness that comes with that type of play. With that said I believe he has been told to clean up his game to the point where it is detrimental to his style of play.
Defensively only area of improvement I see is the defensive line and the sacks dept. stopping the run has regressed monumentally. Linebackers they have regressed too.  Secondary is not good they have been getting worse and worse since 2022. The Giants have managed to lose good secondary players every year. Believe it or not secondary was a strength for the Giants in 2022 and probably main reason for the playoffs.

Coaching to me is the biggest weakness of the Giants. There is instability in the coaching department. The turnover is to high. They went from Kafka to Daboll calling plays. New DC, new OL coach. That to me is instability. Personally I think Daboll is toxic he isn't a good coach based just on his record. This team has way to much turnover in staff that causes learning curves for everyone.

Shoen to me hasn't been very good to many bad draft picks. Losing quality players in free agency. He hasn't been prioritizing retention in the secondary. I think Daboll is having to much say in the decision making process. Instead of coaching what he has I believe he is thinking what he needs and what he wants. Shoen to me is trying to improve one part while basically destroying another.
To me the biggest disappointment has been the coaching. Bringing in a new QB with a bad coaching is a disaster. We would be setting that new QB for failure. I would suggest getting a new coach and start the new QB with a fresh outlook.

Quote from: T200 on November 05, 2024, 08:35:48 AMIn 2022 when he took a QB with a very limited skillset and got him to play the best he has and won a playoff game, I didn't hear nary a peep from anyone about how bad a coach Daboll was. That was the very definition of making something out of very little. And now because he can't do it again, he's less of a coach?

There are things I wish he would do differently but I'm still in his corner. I accept your position, I just don't share it.

You know what I find funny is people who think Jones is limited. A limited QB doesn't complete 65% of his passes. He doesn't run for 500 yards. This guy threw 23 TD in 12 games as a rookie.
Right now Daboll is the HC/OC he calls the plays he doesn't have a game plan no adjustments. The Giants hired the wrong Brian. Daboll hasn't been good since the first 7-8 games to start of his Giants career.
This team has struggled to score points it's an on going thing with Daboll. You call Jones limited just maybe the coach is as limited if not more. He kicks out the defensive coordinator that kept this team in games all last year with a crappy offense surrounded by terrible offensive line. This is an indictment on the GM and HC.

Quote from: T200 on November 04, 2024, 03:22:51 PMI think Mara and Schoen have an understanding. Daboll will get 2 years with his own QB.

If he loses the team over the last 8 games, then all bets are off.

So basically you are going to expose the new QB to Daboll who hasn't proven he is a QB guru, subjecting another QB to multiple coaches to start his career. Sorry but I can't go along with a coach with a losing track record. I want the new QB to be exposed to winner only.

Quote from: uconnjack8 on November 04, 2024, 12:56:31 PMQBs fumbling is a momentum killer too.  And before we get excited about 175 yards of passing in the 2nd half lets acknowledge that the defense plays differently when their team is up 2 scores late in the 4th quarter.  DJ had a mostly good efficient game, but his turnover hurt just as much as any other mistake by the coaches or other players. 

Again, I am not arguing in favor of Daboll so I am not understanding why you are coming at me with this.

Nothing like that. You are most correct that fumbles are momentum killers.