Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: LennG on January 22, 2025, 07:41:29 PMIf some one offered a slew of picks, like the Giants, you'd see how fast they would come off that #1 pick.

Depends on how they grade Sanders/Ward. If they're not talking about a quarterback, they'd move. If its a qb, i doubt they budge. Not apples to apples because I don't recall Joe Burrow being considered generational, but I recall the Bengals expressing to other teams they would not trade out under any circumstances.

I don't know that that generational talent exists in this draft, certainly at the quarterback position.  I'm beginning to hate the phrase "generational talent" because it belies that fact that the Draft is such an imperfect science that literally the best QB of all time and arguably the best football player of all time was a 6th round pick.  Generational Prospect?  Okay.  That exemplifies some qualities of athleticism and collegiate production that you could point to.  Those are, generally speaking, the best indicators we have as to what prospects will pan out as a pro. 

With due respect to the legends of the past, how are we measuring "great"? Frank Gifford was far more dominant in his era than say, Tiki Barber. But Barber was the far superior athlete. Too hard to measure players across eras for any semblance of "great".

Time of Possession is fairly antiquated as a stand-alone measurement at this point.  Much like baseball shifted from batting average to on-base percentage, I think most teams are now looking at number of plays run and yards per attempt as the measurements for healthy offense. 

It's also important to note how much faster teams can score now.  It is not uncommon for teams to score with under a minute left in the half/game, sometimes even less.  As a result, the ability to possess the ball for long periods of time, while still desirable, has a diminished effect.  Go look at the Raiders game from a few weeks back.  They were literally so scared of kicking a field goal with under 20 seconds and turning the ball back over to Mahomes that they tried an ill-advised play from scrimmage, botched the snap and lost the game.  Not to mention the Chiefs/Bills game from a few years back where 24 points were scored in the last 2 minutes or something.

I don't want to blame Shedeur for the sins of his father, but he also has not done much to distance himself from his father either.  I get it - as a dad, I want what's best for my kid.  We looked the other way when Eli did it because we were the beneficiary.  While Sanders can say otherwise, he clearly expressed in the past that he would help Shedeur "pull an Eli" if he didn't like the team projected to draft him.  Being shrewd, Sanders is now back-pedaling up on that message to maintain leverage, but the cat's out of the bag.  It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that even IF Sanders were willing to send his son to NY his good will only lasts so long.  There are clearly people in Jackson still upset that he left after only a couple of years.  He unabashedly went after critics in the press to the point he tried to ban one from asking questions during press conferences.  He lobbied and whined and complained about any and every perceived slight or inquired around why his players and program weren't considered amongst the best.  I can do without trying to please Sanders SR by drafting Shedeur - I can only imagine the first time Shedeur has a bad game him calling into WFAN to argue.  This is a man who is your best friend when things are going well.

Frankly I don't want either Ward or Sanders.  Trade down, stack some picks including multiple first rounders in future years if possible, grab someone in the 2nd round like Quinn Ewers, Jaxson Dart, Garrett Nussmeier or Jalen Milroe, pick up a retread for a year like Kirk Cousins, Russ Wilson or even Justin Fields, and roll for a year.  If it works, great.  If not, you're in a position to go get a QB of higher caliber.  Whether Arch Manning follows in his families footsteps at the collegiate level remains to be seen, but he'd certainly be in the mix. 

Gotta wonder what Russ Wilson does too. Not my favorite guy but he's also a free agent after the season.

Pretty sure this is more a function of blocking and having the ability to hit top speed moreso than him regaining something lost. Go look at his game logs, he rips off long runs once a game, often for a td. Derrick Henry being number 2 illustrates this further. God blocking is gonna give you more opportunity to crank it up.

I'm not entirely sure how to start this thread but I'll put my thoughts out there and let less preoccupied minds than mine opine.

Maybe it's just me but I look across the league and see a marked trend in quarterback guarantees coming back to bite the team that issued them.  Obviously the cap implications of cutting Daniel Jones are top of mind for wannabe Giants GMs as we look towards the future, but take a look around and I think you'll agree teams are misfiring on QBs more than ever before but hamstringing themselves with bloated contracts.

- Trevor Lawrence is in his 4th year and fresh off a deal that tied him with Joe Burrow as the highest paid player in the NFL.  The Jaguars have the worst record in the league and illustrate an offensive ineptitude that would make even the Giants take note.  He may get shut down for the rest of the season after a vicious concussion yesterday.
- Tua Tagovailoa also inked a massive off-season deal.  He's had at least 4 concussions (probably 5) in the past two years and while everyone seems to be happy he's out there playing again, you do cross your fingers that he doesn't incur another that might ultimately prove career-ending.
- The Cowboys completely misplayed any advantage they might have had with Dak Prescott and have now twice been forced to sign him to extreme deals.  While you can argue that his regular season efficacy is well above average outside of this year, his lack of post-season accolades leave many scratching their head.
- The Browns are stuck with DeShaun Watson for at least 2 more years if not longer based on the guarantees they gave out.  He's been very injury prone in his tenure there and ineffective when healthy.
- Kirk Cousins and Kyler Murray are different stories but both are raking in sizeable money with middling results.  It looks even worse for Cousins coming off a season lost to injury and playing poorly of late.  The dead money cap hits to cut either after this season would be in excess of 60m (although the Cardinals clearly won't do that). 
- Add in Daniel Jones and thats nearly a quarter of the league with issues at QB.  Some can't be cut either because the cap implications are too severe or because the QB is doing just good enough to not warrant it or make you think they're turning the corner.  Some can be cut, but doing so limits your ability to add key free agents or build around the new QB.

This feels like a new problem - I for sure remember QBs flaming out at a high clip in the past but I don't remember it being so franchise-altering to make a bad decision. 

I don't know that this is much of an argument to be honest.  By and large I believe most voters/people think that:

- Eli will get in, albeit unlikely on the first ballot.
- He will get in on the back of 2 things.  1 - his wins were of historic nature and are equally as significant in NFL lore as Joe Namath guaranteeing the Jets win.  2 - While he never set the NFL ablaze with stats, he was very, very good for a very long time and finished his career in the top 10 in every statistical category imaginable. 

The haters will point to a lack of All-Pros and Probowls and nonsense, but the dude's getting in. 

I had two immediate reactions to this which are seemingly at odds, but aren't if you know me.

1 - I feel bad for Daniel Jones.  Football is a team sport.  He contributed to some poor teams.  He is not a good NFL quarterback and is unlikely to develop as one.  But he gave it his all.  He was total class.  He never threw a teammate or coach under the bus.  He played hard-nosed.  He did what he was asked and didn't whine to the media.  I'm sorry that the New York Giants failed with him and really do hope he finds a new home as backup somewhere because he's very viable in that regard.
2 - my human reaction was nearly to come on the board and say "HAHA I TOLD YOU SO".  I've never been that bragadocious though and doing it here would ring hollow.  I always rooted for Daniel Jones even though I thought his signing to be a mistake.  Nobody gets every player right, but it was nice to pat myself on the back as armchair GM. 

The NFL Sunday ticket includes condensed versions of all the day games on Sunday so I often use that to rewatch Giants games (or others) to see what I didn't pick up on when watching live.  I was admittedly in/out of the room for much of the game on Sunday and missed the Jones fumble in the first quarter, but in rewatching I'm scratching my head about this.

Several years back the NFL made it reviewable for fumbles that weren't ruled fumbles on the field of play to be challenged, and so long as there is a clear and obvious recovery, the turnover can be ruled rather than the fumble.

In watching the play, there is clear confusion after Jones gets hit as to whether it is a fumble.  No whistles immediately blow to indicate the play is dead, but they also don't throw the beanie to indicate a fumble.  Singletary picks up on this and begins sprinting after the ball.  Before he arrives, multiple whistles blow and he stops pursuit.  Bobby Wagner keeps going and picks up the ball.  If there was no clear recovery before the whistles blow, shouldn't the possession remain with the Giants?  Otherwise, aren't we incentivizing players to continue to play long after the whistle blows?  If all the players ignore the whistle and start a dog-pile on every routine "maybe he fumbled" - is that really what the NFL wants?

I don't like to throw in the towel on a season so soon but last night might have been the death-knell for me.  Had the Giants clawed back to 3-3 behind a strong offensive performance I would hold out hope on post-season aspirations and such.  But now we would need to win 2 consecutive games just to get the .500 mark at the mid-way point of the season.  Tall task against Philly and the Steelers. 

With very rare exception - teams don't intentionally tank.  The players are always trying.  The head coach or decision-maker can put them behind the 8-ball by starting backup QBs and other tactics they do under the ruse of "we have to see what we have in so-and-so", but the players and coaches are generally trying to win with what they have out there.  The Giants have been competitive in every game except Minnesota.  I expect they'll bumble their way into a few more wins before all is said and done.  Which is why I don't think we're going to be drafting in the top 5 and primed for a shoo-in QB (if one even existed in the upcoming class). 

I'm really surprised at the number of people who are ready to throw in the towel on Thibs.  No patience anymore.  He's a strong player who should pretty easily put up 10+ sacks a year.  He's often disruptive and does things that don't show up on the stat sheet with hurries and pressures.  We've got him cheap for all of this year and next.  We can exercise the 5th year option after this season if we want so he's not going anywhere anytime soon.  If we do that we get 2 additional years to see how he pans out before potentially franchising or offering a 2nd contract. 

As to Ojulari - good game.  Show me more.  He's a free agent after this year so play like your life depends on it and see where we land at the end of the year.

What is Nabers supposed to do? Lock himself in a room? Concussions are like a hangover. The only medicine is time. Going to a concert is not going to help or make the situation worse. Let him be him.

I get the opportunity from the Sunday ticket to watch condensed versions of every game (no downtime between plays, no commercials) and usually watch several non-Giant games during the week.  There's an NFL-wide theme that nobody seems to be addressing or even talking about, wanted to pick your guys' brains.

Traditional 3rd down defense still seems to reign supreme on 3rd and long.  Get some additional pressure from a blitzer, make the QB throw to the hot-read, and rely on your secondary to rally and get the ball-carrier to the ground before the sticks.  There is often little to no contest about the reception itself, the defenders simply want to make a tackle.  I feel like most defensive coordinators would be very happy to concede yards that lead to a 4th and 1, 4th and 2. 

Is this really the right approach anymore?  In watching games I see:

- 3rd and longs (including 10+) being converted outright a pretty high clip. 
- wide receivers are better at YAC than ever and can often make the first man miss.  Combine that with erosion of tackling over the years and you have a recipe for lots of conversions.
- more and more head coaches are comfortable going for it on 4th down, especially in short yardage.  Conventional wisdom of forcing a "4th and short" does not mean the offense is gonna punt as often as it used to.