Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: Trench on November 20, 2024, 10:44:11 PMI've read reports Jines may ask for his release or be told he can stay away from the team.

Let me say, I don't believe this for a second. One thing Jones is not and that is a bad teammate. He is a Captain and QB. The idea he would just leave the team is absurd. Maybe others would do that, but not Daniel Jones. He's a good teammate first and foremost and these writers who are trying to find stories should be ashamed of themselves.

Yeah, would be shocked if this is true.

We've constantly read about his high character and I don't believe this is what he'd do.  When Eli was benched, he was doing media interviews at his stool.

I thought it was cleared up in the summer that John Schinder misspoke when he said Lock had a chance to compete.

Lock was signed in March, when Jones wasn't a certainty to be ready for week 1. To his credit, he was.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 20, 2024, 03:01:06 PMThis is purely my own feelings:

I have little use for HOFs. Most of the time, there aren't clearly defined criteria for entry, which negates the value.  Secondly, while I occasionally enjoy remembering great plays and players, my focus tends to be on the present.

To me, it's sort of like the old car shows that used to be all the rage (at least around where I have lived).  Interest in the old car shows sort of died out.  I suspect it was partly due to over-saturation, but I feel like old cars, in general, have limited internet.  No doubt it's interesting to the owners and restorers of old cars, but in reality, the old cars are not as good by most measures as current cars.  So the interest in old cars tends to be stronger for those who have fond memories around a particular car or dreamed (when they were younger) of owning a particular car (and now they can).

So, how does that long-winded commentary on car shows relate to the HOF?  Sure, I like remembering the Giants great and the true legends of the game.  On the other hand, a really good CB who played for the Rams 50 years ago or an offensive lineman who played for the Seahawks 30 years ago doesn't exactly spike my interest.

So, while I would probably visit the HOF if I happened to find myself in Canton, OH, I seriously doubt I would go out of my way to get there.

Pretty much my thoughts but laid out much better than my own.

Good for him.

I can fully understand why he took the opportunity last year re: the money for appearances etc.

I'm excited to see what he can bring to the table with Nabers, Tracey and 18 months in the playbook. Im expecting little but hoping for more.

Good luck to him.

I've long said that too many people get into the Hall of Fame, it's diluting the quality.

I think there needs to be a cut off of how many times one can be nominated. Holt has been nominated 11 times and not got in. That's crazy to think he'll eventually get in.

Quote from: Ed Vette on November 19, 2024, 04:39:56 PMWell, that settles that. He's in bubble wrap and untouchable. This was all about protecting the cap.

Yup. Absolutely all over.

What an unbelievable 18 months.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 12:14:49 PMThe fact that you felt the need to qualify with "self-proclaimed" strongly implies I don't have football acumen (and you are hardly the only one to suggest this on this forum).  While you and others seem to enjoy mocking and pointing out mistakes and belittling my hard-earned knowledge, there are people outside this echo chamber of a forum who comment on football for a living and who recognize the value of my well-informed opinions.

Until the end of the 2022 season, I felt DJ wasn't given a proper chance to prove himself to be a franchise QB (and frankly, at this point, that is likely still proven a correct assertion on my part).

It also requires denying (without a shred of sound evidence) that tDJ may have lost the confidence followed by the abilities due to the beating and injuries suffered in 2023.  I am not going to take your approach and suggest other possibilities do exist, but clearly, for your claim to be true, one MUST make claims that are frankly not grounded in fact.  Still, I get it, based on what I consider to be poor form demonstrated by the "I told you so crowd" being fair in evaluations was easily trumped by the desire to gloat and put those that disagreed down.


The "haters" narrative does not reflect a forum where such labeling was strongly discouraged.  It's also a bit self-serving, in my opinion, to ignore the "DJ Lover" (or its variants) label that was frequently tossed around or the common pejorative of "Oh, you are just making excuses for DJ"

If you want validation for always being down on DJ, well, congrats, you were right. The team is without a franchise QB.  DJ, for whatever reason, crashed and burned after a pretty good 2022 (this is statistically factual).  Regardless of how it played out, your predictions of Daniel Jones' future with the Giants were (to the detriment of the team) proven correct.

For what it's worth, this entire discussion reminds me of this quote from a man who was not unintelligent


Albert Einstein — 'I'd rather be an optimist and a fool than a pessimist and right.'

And whilst I thank you for the acknowledgement or still can't help yourself with a tiny dig at the end and the impression I was 'down' on DJ - in Gameday threads, I praised him when he did well and criticised when he played poorly. Sadly, the latter occurred more than the former.

Nevermind, you're correct. We are currently without a franchise QB. It's a shame this happened today rather than in 2022 but there we are. Bad decisions come home in all walks of life.

Oh, I completely agree that many things are earned. One thought that ought not to be earned is an admission of getting things wrong. Despite your self proclaimed levels of football acumen, you and the side you sit on were widely incorrect on Daniel Jones being the Franchise QB of the New York Giants.

Quite why it's so difficult for you to admit that, I'm not entirely sure.

Nowhere did I claim, I was a football expert, I'm well aware of what it takes to be an expert in your field. All I said was I, among others, were correct - hence the quoting of Lenn.

The inability of people to own their mistakes, admit they were wrong and ultimately apologise for cultivating a notion of 'haters', is in my opinion (which impacts both the worldview and that of football forums), is why so many conversations are contentious rather than cooperative.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

Quote from: Trench on November 19, 2024, 11:39:44 AMLet's revisit the Barkley issue in 2 years from now so we have a full portrait of whether or not it was the right move to go with the young kids.

Right now it looks like a mistake. We shall see what history says when all is said and done.

Life comes at you quick in 18-24 months

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 11:20:05 AMWhen DJ was signed, there wasn't much in the I told you so vein.  I made it a point to talk to the DJ supporters that "I told you so" is counterproductive.  The reality is part of the reason so few people change their minds is that people inadvertently make it less desirable for people to change their views by gloating or going the whole "I told you so route."

I firmly believe that you increase your odds of people agreeing with you by avoiding the plague, the "I told you so" or "you need to eat crow" troupe.   That's just my position, and I appreciate that not all people who weren't all out on DJ shared my values.

Recollections clearly vary on this point.

Which is fine but it is my firmly held belief that this was neither the vein or goal of the Jones signing thread.

But @LennG points out above. That faction were entirely correct. Which is ultimately meaningless, after all this is just a message board but it's good that the football acumen of those posters are validated with what they saw.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 10:55:19 AMI wouldn't describe the fanbase being "validated," and frankly, the way the term is being used, it's hard not to see that term being used as a backdoor, "I told you so"  Considering how the critics outnumbered the people supportive of DJ and how the critics frequently dismiss the circumstance beyond DJ's control that ultimately led to his failure as the Giants starting QB, I am having a hard time with the whole fanbase as the wronged victims being vindicated narrative (which is how I perceive this discussion, and as you said is my right just as you have a right to put forth your perceptions)

Validated or I told you so. I'm not sure why it's so important to you?

This is just the reverse the situation 18 months ago when the Franchise QB was signed.

Perhaps your memory of those threads, and the general contract thread differs to mine. But it was littered with "I told you so".
 

Okay, again. I don't view it as that but it's up to you.

My parents instilled the idea that one person's could be construed in a variety of different ways, so I'm not going to argue about how "you" feel about reading something.

But on the whole, I don't think there's anything wrong with the fanbase feeling validated. The "haters" were treated as pariahs for a long period of time with every critique admonished as hating and wanting the Giants to lose. Time has shown that side to be correct and if management/ownership saw it the way the haters did. They should be much further along than we actually are.

If you're not seeing that point of view, that's entirely your right.

There's been plenty of acknowledgement for his efforts. There always had been.

Plus the kicking him when he's down, if you view it that way, is immaterial. He's not reading this board.

If you're reading the posts as "I told you so". I doubt that's why different than a large number of posters thought with the since disappeared "I'm so glad the Giants have found their franchise QB".

This 'confidence shot' thing interests me. So here's a timeline:

- Wins a road game in a 'hostile' environment in the 2022 play-offs?

- He then signs the deal

- Comes out the gate 1-6, sacked a hell of a lot - some the fault of the line, some the fault of him (as reported by PFF).

- Comes back from injury, has a revamped OL, Nabers etc

- Benched.

So if we assume the confidence is not shot when he signs the deal, as he managed to win on the road, we are talking about the confidence being somewhere between week 2 and 8 of 2023 (I can't imagine the confidence is eroded in one mere game of 2023).

If that's the case, that's a massive red flag about his intangibles - i.e. his resilience, if he's whole confidence is shot in a short space of time after signing the deal, what does that say about him?


OR an opposing view - the accumulative performance just wasn't good enough. And there's no harm in that, he gave it his best worked hard but ultimately it just wasn't good enough for the New York Giants.

Unless, of course, the whole confidence stuff serves another purpose all together?

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 19, 2024, 08:10:51 AMIt sounds like the Jags HC (after that disaster game against Detroit) is a dead man walking (a lot of predictions he is fired this week).  I can't imagine there is anything Antonio Pierce can do to save his job, either.

Probably not. But he's certainly going to try.

Either way, a new coach will come with a change of atmosphere and they might reel off some games - see the Saints this season, the Raiders last year etc.