Big Blue Huddle

Figured to start a new Knicks thread for this offseason plus upcoming season.  So they traded Obi Toppin cor 2 second round picks.  Seems a little light for a guy that I rhink can be a legit starter especially on his new team which plays in transition a lot.  Empties the rotation a bit.  Just hope Randle keeps his play up.

Donnie D pick up is a good one as I like his outside shooting ability plus his D.   

Quote from: Philosophers on July 01, 2023, 09:03:51 PMFigured to start a new Knicks thread for this offseason plus upcoming season.  So they traded Obi Toppin cor 2 second round picks.  Seems a little light for a guy that I rhink can be a legit starter especially on his new team which plays in transition a lot.  Empties the rotation a bit.  Just hope Randle keeps his play up.

Donnie D pick up is a good one as I like his outside shooting ability plus his D.   

I feel exactly as you do. I love the DiVincenzo pickup as we need a three point sharpshooter plus I like the Nova connection to Hart and Brunson. With that said I agree that just two 2s for Obi is a weak return. 2s in the NBA draft are like 5th or 6th rounders in the NFL. Obi never got the minutes with the Knicks, but I remember the final month of the 21/22 season when Randle was out and Obi had a starting role. He lit it up then. I think the Pacers made a great trade here.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 01, 2023, 09:28:20 PMI feel exactly as you do. I love the DiVincenzo pickup as we need a three point sharpshooter plus I like the Nova connection to Hart and Brunson. With that said I agree that just two 2s for Obi is a weak return. 2s in the NBA draft are like 5th or 6th rounders in the NFL. Obi never got the minutes with the Knicks, but I remember the final month of the 21/22 season when Randle was out and Obi had a starting role. He lit it up then. I think the Pacers made a great trade here.

Yup, I like DiVincenzo but feel this trade off hurts.  I like Toppin better than Randle in Playoff basketball.  Regular Season bball is Randle but playoff is Toppin, in my opinion

Rose really screwed the pooch when he drafted Toppin. It made no sense at the time especially considering they were desperately in need of a point guard and Haliburton was still there, and now he corrects that mistake by dumping Toppin for a pair of worthless second round picks. The guy is in over his head.

Dont like the draft picks back but to say he's in over his head seems harsh considering he's built the Knicks (and their whole org) into their best shape in over 20 years.

Quote from: Philosophers on July 02, 2023, 01:01:04 AMDont like the draft picks back but to say he's in over his head seems harsh considering he's built the Knicks (and their whole org) into their best shape in over 20 years.

Most of the heavy lifting was done by the previous regime. He had nothing to do with Randall, Barrett and Robinson. He gets credit for signing Brunson and acquiring Hart but he's also responsible for trading four first round draft picks away just to create enough cap space to make Brunson happen. Then again he wouldn't have had to do that if he had just drafted Haliburton in the first place.

Count me in as one of the those who could not believe that a PG starved team passed on Halliburton.  The Knicks hadn't had a good young PG in like forever and it even took a few years later to get Brunson.  That said, I thought Rose was signed around the time or shortly before the 2020 draft and I'm guessing that it was the basketball people in the front office who were pushing for Toppin.  Maybe I'm wrong.

That said, drafting Toppin was a huge mistake.  Not on the level of Frank Nikitina (or whatever his name is) or even worse, Kevin Knox but a bad pick.  He's basically a 2 trick pony, driving uncontested to the hoop and shooting wide open 3's.  That's not enough and he doesn't play defense.  I don't think he has too much value and it's almost now get what you can and that looks like 2 2's.

Quote from: madbadger on July 02, 2023, 02:16:51 AMMost of the heavy lifting was done by the previous regime. He had nothing to do with Randall, Barrett and Robinson. He gets credit for signing Brunson and acquiring Hart but he's also responsible for trading four first round draft picks away just to create enough cap space to make Brunson happen. Then again he wouldn't have had to do that if he had just drafted Haliburton in the first place.

He's drafted some nice young players in Grimes, McBride, etc.  Toppin was a fine pick but nobody expected Randle's career to have a huge resurgence that put Toppin in the bench.

He signed Thibs as coach who has done a nice job. 

He has amassed a lot of draft picks going forward.

Knicks have more flexibility than they ever have.

The previous regime drafted RJ at pick 3.  That tells you how bad they were to pick at 3.


Look at all the draft picks

I like Leon Rose. I think he has shown a nice combination of restraint and tactical sharpness. There were people in this thread who were critical of the Jalen Brunson signing at the time, calling it an overpay, but in fact it was a superb signing. The Hart pickup was excellent. And I thought he showed commendable restraint in not going all-in on Donovan Mitchell, who is a great offensive talent but not a guy who is going to win you a championship (see the Cavs first round exit courtesy of us). Past regimes would have given Danny Ainge whatever he wanted to get that deal done (see the Mello trade).

The Knicks were an absolute five car pile-up when Rose was handed the team, and that had been true for nearly two decades. This was not an overnight fix. I will speak for myself, but I am pretty happy with the state of the team right now given where it was a few years ago. They're young, they're already pretty respectable, and they have a ton of assets. I like the direction the franchise is headed in.

I like the fact that the Knicks are staying the course, developing young talent, and not getting fooled into thinking a superstar free agent is the final piece of the puzzle. Signing Donte DiVincenzo is not a "huge" signing, but he's a young guy with a couple of specific traits (tough defensive player who will nail threes if left alone)

It gives us a bit of a glut with a foursome of undersized wings (IQ, Grimes, Hart, and now Divincenzo) and now we need a backup PF, which I suspect will happen in the near future with a trade or FA signing. Randle is an All-Star PF, but he goes down for spells with injuries, and we don't have a reliable backup to him. That is my only concern

I'm just happy they aren't chasing big names that cost big money and are usually past their prime. We've got a solid group of players 25 and younger with their best days ahead of them. Let them develop, and let them all rise to the top of their game together in the next couple of years. That plan might be "low-key", but it's the "high road", and smartest thing they can do IMO...which is a long time coming

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on July 02, 2023, 11:52:49 AMI like Leon Rose. I think he has shown a nice combination of restraint and tactical sharpness. There were people in this thread who were critical of the Jalen Brunson signing at the time, calling it an overpay, but in fact it was a superb signing. The Hart pickup was excellent. And I thought he showed commendable restraint in not going all-in on Donovan Mitchell, who is a great offensive talent but not a guy who is going to win you a championship (see the Cavs first round exit courtesy of us). Past regimes would have given Danny Ainge whatever he wanted to get that deal done (see the Mello trade).

The Knicks were an absolute five car pile-up when Rose was handed the team, and that had been true for nearly two decades. This was not an overnight fix. I will speak for myself, but I am pretty happy with the state of the team right now given where it was a few years ago. They're young, they're already pretty respectable, and they have a ton of assets. I like the direction the franchise is headed in.

100% agree and a nice summary

Quote from: Philosophers on July 02, 2023, 11:48:06 AMHe's drafted some nice young players in Grimes, McBride, etc.  Toppin was a fine pick but nobody expected Randle's career to have a huge resurgence that put Toppin in the bench.

He signed Thibs as coach who has done a nice job. 

He has amassed a lot of draft picks going forward.

Knicks have more flexibility than they ever have.

The previous regime drafted RJ at pick 3.  That tells you how bad they were to pick at 3.


Look at all the draft picks

That 3rd pick might have been the best pick of the draft considering #1 pick Zion has been a bit of a bust, weight issues, injuries and lots of lost playing time, and now this issue with him and hookers. The #2 pick, Morant thinks he's Billy the Kid, carrying guns around, flashing them in crowds and getting suspended to go along with some obvious bad character flaws. At least RJ cares enough to stay in shape, is a gym rat, and isn't an embarrassment off the court. And he's only 23 years old with 4 seasons of NBA experience under his belt. His best is yet to come (knock on wood! LOL)

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on July 02, 2023, 05:54:15 PMThat 3rd pick might have been the best pick of the draft considering #1 pick Zion has been a bit of a bust, weight issues, injuries and lots of lost playing time, and now this issue with him and hookers. The #2 pick, Morant thinks he's Billy the Kid, carrying guns around, flashing them in crowds and getting suspended to go along with some obvious bad character flaws. At least RJ cares enough to stay in shape, is a gym rat, and isn't an embarrassment off the court. And he's only 23 years old with 4 seasons of NBA experience under his belt. His best is yet to come (knock on wood! LOL)

I think RJ is at his ceiling.  Good player but not an All Star and terribly streaky as a scorer.

Quote from: Jolly Blue Giant on July 02, 2023, 05:54:15 PMThat 3rd pick might have been the best pick of the draft considering #1 pick Zion has been a bit of a bust, weight issues, injuries and lots of lost playing time, and now this issue with him and hookers. The #2 pick, Morant thinks he's Billy the Kid, carrying guns around, flashing them in crowds and getting suspended to go along with some obvious bad character flaws. At least RJ cares enough to stay in shape, is a gym rat, and isn't an embarrassment off the court. And he's only 23 years old with 4 seasons of NBA experience under his belt. His best is yet to come (knock on wood! LOL)

While I have routinely been openly critical of RJ Barrett here and am hardly his biggest fan, I have to agree. While Morant is clearly a much better player, he seems incapable of learning from his mistakes and could be headed down a pretty bad path. Zion is a major bust due to his durability and effort issues (despite having talent). The Knicks, at the moment at least, appear to have the only one of the three who has any sort of head on his shoulders.

He's got $68 million tied up in shooting guards alone and no none of them are considered to be good shooters and we don't have a real small forward on the roster. I think things were so bad for so long that even a modicum of success blinds some of us to the awful construction of this roster. Did I mention our backup point guard really is nothing more than an undersized 2 guard?