Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 07, 2024, 01:56:12 PM1)  I am already seeing popular mocks with JJ going anywhere from 12 - 18.  So it's not unrealistic to think he couldn't end up top 10

Why is so much weight and credence given to these mocks? They are just someone else's guesses. Educated or not, it's still a guess, not a guarantee.

The only value I get from these mocks is to see which players are popular.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 07, 2024, 02:13:05 PMYour comment in bold reminds me of an old NFL saying-  A GM that thinks like the fans (or does their job with an eye toward pleasing the fans) will soon join the fans.

It doesn't change the reality that it's how people think and act.

Quote from: T200 on February 07, 2024, 02:17:04 PMWhy is so much weight and credence given to these mocks? They are just someone else's guesses. Educated or not, it's still a guess, not a guarantee.

The only value I get from these mocks is to see which players are popular.

Tim,

It depends on the mock.  Some mocks are simply talent evaluators ranking prospects and assigning talent based on team needs. Other mocks are based on what sort of information the person doing the mock can get from scouts and NFL front office types.  The latter mocks can provide insights into how NFL teams view the prospects, which is always different than the draft community (the ones currently saying JJ isn't top 10)

Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 07, 2024, 02:19:53 PMIt doesn't change the reality that it's how people think and act.

If Schoen is a good GM (and I sure hope he is), he should do what he believes to be right, not what he thinks fans want him to do.

As the saying goes, so GMs may have an eye towards pleasing the fanbase but they don't last long in their jobs

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 07, 2024, 02:19:57 PMTim,

It depends on the mock.  Some mocks are simply talent evaluators ranking prospects and assigning talent based on team needs. Other mocks are based on what sort of information the person doing the mock can get from scouts and NFL front office types.  The latter mocks can provide insights into how NFL teams view the prospects, which is always different than the draft community (the ones currently saying JJ isn't top 10)

I hear ya, Rich. They're all still guesses, some based on more information than others.

Every year, there's a bunch of people saying, "I didn't see that coming." No one ever does.

Quote from: T200 on February 07, 2024, 02:30:56 PMI hear ya, Rich. They're all still guesses, some based on more information than others.

Every year, there's a bunch of people saying, "I didn't see that coming." No one ever does.

Tim,

Let me turn it around.  How does Larry know JJ McCarthy ISN'T worth a top-10 pick?


Back on topic, I can't wait until the Combine.  I suspect that McCarthy puts up very impressive numbers and throws the ball well.   On top of that, the Combine will allow the media to mingle with scouts and NFL front office people.   I have a feeling McCarthy's perceived draft value will have an upward trajectory after that event.  I am mindful that many draft pundits and media people are operating a bit in the dark because no one knew if McCarthy would declare so there wasn't as much focus on him until last month.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 07, 2024, 02:33:49 PMTim,

Let me turn it around.  How does Larry know JJ McCarthy ISN'T worth a top-10 pick?


Back on topic, I can't wait until the Combine.  I suspect that McCarthy puts up very impressive numbers and throws the ball well.   On top of that the Combine will allow the media to mingle with scouts and NFL front office people.   I have a feeling McCarthy's perceived draft value will have an upward trajectory after that event.

That's not turning it around. It's still someone else's opinion. It has no bearing on what any of the 32 teams will do with any of their picks.

And now I get to get on my soapbox about the combine! 

Why is so much weight put on a weekend event that doesn't include pads? Every single event that they do at the combine will NOT be done on an NFL field.

Why does the combine carry more weight than what a player has done for the 3 or 4 years he's been playing college ball? Talk about a small sample size. Same with the Senior Bowl.

It's just ssa sdrawkcab to me.

Quote from: T200 on February 07, 2024, 02:38:26 PMThat's not turning it around. It's still someone else's opinion. It has no bearing on what any of the 32 teams will do with any of their picks.

And now I get to get on my soapbox about the combine! 

Why is so much weight put on a weekend event that doesn't include pads? Every single event that they do at the combine will NOT be done on an NFL field.

Why does the combine carry more weight than what a player has done for the 3 or 4 years he's been playing college ball? Talk about a small sample size. Same with the Senior Bowl.

It's just ssa sdrawkcab to me.

Tim,

Our perception of draft prospects is pretty much shaped by reports on said draft prospects.  I don't think any of us have time to spend hours breaking down film on each of the hundreds of prospects (assuming we even have access to such film).  So much of our perspective is from listening to reports.   As I said, when the NFL and the draftniks all get together and start talking, those perspectives being reported will change regardless of no snaps played.

Now, as to the Combine itself, there is value to the NFL teams.  They will tell you the biggest value is the medical examines.  Beyond that, the measurements and the testing pretty much act as confirmations.  Teams already have an idea based on scouting what a player's measurements and performance should be.  So if the Combine shows something different, it will cause teams to go back and reevaluate.   Also, most teams have measurement and performance standards for prospects they are willing to draft.  So, a player confirming outside those standards will get heavily dinged.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 07, 2024, 02:45:42 PMTim,

Our perception of draft prospects is pretty much shaped by reports on said draft prospects.  I don't think any of us have time to spend hours breaking down film on each of the hundreds of prospects (assuming we even have access to such film).  So much of our perspective is from listening to reports.   As I said, when the NFL and the draftniks all get together and start talking, those perspectives being reported will change regardless of no snaps played.

Now, as to the Combine itself, there is value to the NFL teams.  They will tell you the biggest value is the medical examines.  Beyond that, the measurements and the testing pretty much act as confirmations.  Teams already have an idea based on scouting what a player's measurements and performance should be.  So if the Combine shows something different, it will cause teams to go back and reevaluate.   Also, most teams have measurement and performance standards for prospects they are willing to draft.  So, a player confirming outside those standards will get heavily dinged.

The medical/physical/mental evaluations are fine by me.

Why are the players doing speed and agility tests in shorts and t-shirts? Put on the pads and helmets and do the same thing. That's more realistic to me.

According to PFF, who has the most bench presses per game?   

Quote from: T200 on February 07, 2024, 02:49:43 PMThe medical/physical/mental evaluations are fine by me.

Why are the players doing speed and agility tests in shorts and t-shirts? Put on the pads and helmets and do the same thing. That's more realistic to me.

According to PFF, who has the most bench presses per game?   

For what it's worth, the bench press has value for some positions (and needs to be considered through the lens of arm length).  It's a strong indicator of both strength and time spent in the gym.  Time spent in the gym can often indicate how a player will deal with rehab (which is very similar).  So if you get a player that has a poor bench press, you need to be careful. This isn't going to be a player that spends too much time in the trainer's because they are not willing to put in the rehab work to get back on the field as quickly as possible.

That all said, with the exception of the medicals (and even these can be wrong), nothing learned at the Combine should be treated as an absolute, as there are always exceptions.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 07, 2024, 01:56:12 PMLarry, a few thoughts:

1)  I am already seeing popular mocks with JJ going anywhere from 12 - 18.  So it's not unrealistic to think he couldn't end up top 10

2) Not addressing an issue is but an option, and like all the other options, it comes with risk.   Daboll may not see a season 4 if Jones pulls an Aaron Rodgers and suffers another neck injury on his third play, and the season is kneecapped before it can start.

OK, if I untangle that triple negative correctly, you're saying he realistically could wind up in the top 10.  Right?   

Quote from: Gman329 on February 07, 2024, 03:06:38 PMOK, if I untangle that triple negative correctly, you're saying he realistically could wind up in the top 10.  Right?   

Sometimes, I lean too heavily on Grammarly to proofread.  IT should read "he could end up top 10" rather than "couldn't"

As I've established elsewhere on here. The Giants need to move on from Jones. If that means the Rook can sit behind him and absorb how to do and not do stuff. I'm all for it.

The one thing Gettleman got right was the fact if your QB is there, you take him.

If this kid is the guy this regime want to hitch their wagon to, then take him. Jones' structure always allowed for this approach. Some here knew and the Giants knew it was a possibility Jones wouldn't take the leap, therefore they put themselves to take a QB this year, if there's one there.

Mccarthy and Jones couldn't be further apart as prospects. I don't see a single comparison, not in high school or college were Mccarthy was prolific.

Quote from: Jclayton92 on February 07, 2024, 05:12:57 PMMccarthy and Jones couldn't be further apart as prospects. I don't see a single comparison, not in high school or college were Mccarthy was prolific.

I agree, but I hear the comparison frequently