Big Blue Huddle

Clickbait or not, I'm surprised that Melvin K Jr. would have the cujones to go there.

Per Ed Valentine:

If they can't or don't want to move up from No. 6 in the 2024 NFL Draft to select a quarterback, would or should the New York Giants reach for someone like Michigan quarterback J.J. McCarthy.

ESPN draft analyst Mel Kiper Jr. strenuously objects to that idea, throwing his full support behind Giants quarterback Daniel Jones.


"Daniel Jones is going to be a better quarterback [than McCarthy]," Kiper said. "Daniel Jones has already shown he can be a winning NFL quarterback, a really good quarterback.

"He needs help ... the Giants get more help, stay healthier, get guys healthy, get it together, maintain some consistency and Daniel Jones is the right man for the job."

With Jones coming off two neck injuries and now rehabbing a torn ACL, as well as having only one year of guaranteed money remaining on his four-year, $160 million contract, there is heavy speculation about the Giants being interested in a quarterback at No. 6, or earlier.

Are you buying what Kiper is selling?

My take is that there are too many ifs re Jones, and no reason to work McCarthy into the proposition.

Cheers!

All I need to hear.

If Kiper thinks this - then McCarthy has a chance to be a superstar.

"I think when you look at Carr and Harrington, three or four years down the road, you're not going to call any one of these two players a bust or a disappointment," Kiper said via Bronicel.

Yup,

Saw that too. I agree JJ is not a top 10 pick. Kiper said the Giants picking him 6th.."is preposterous". Agree once more.

But DJ has not been a winning qb or shown proven winner potential (unless you make a Washington exception). He can beat them. Plus, factor in obvious durability issues make his faith in Jones seem wobbly.

 If Kiper wasn't concerned about last year's horrible play, guess nothing will dissuade him about DJ. Qb is a major concern but I hope our heroes don't reach for the position. We need great players everywhere almost. 

Jones is getting paid more than Josh Allen next year and we're arguing whether he is a better player than JJ McCarthy.

I don't think Daniel Jones can come back from his injuries.

The injuries are my biggest concern as well. We will need our football equivalent of Hadrian's Wall and the Roman legions Manning it to keep Jones intact. Jones played scared early last year in part due to the lingering psychological impact of the Judge/Garrett era but in part due to fear for his physical safety.

The reality is, despite some fan's claims, Jones is a pretty talented QB.   The issue with Jones is the injuries.  One neck injury is scary; a second neck injury means you can't count on the guy.  The ACL is just piling on.

As I have said in the past, I am not a fan of comparing QBs directly.  After all, they all are in very different situations in terms of support (coaching, receivers, pass blocking, general talent levels) and scheme. 

Still, one of the problems for Mel Kiper (and anyone in the Draftnik community) is that you are scouting for the world rather than scouting for a team.   The reality is that each NFL team values different traits.  So even if two teams see a player in the same way, they will not rate them the same because each team will be looking for different types of players.  With that said, he is really getting into the weeds when he starts to compare a 5 year QB who has had a career history of poor support and frequent injuries with current draft prospects.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 28, 2024, 08:54:01 AMThe reality is, despite some fan's claims, Jones is a pretty talented QB.   The issue with Jones is the injuries.  One neck injury is scary; a second neck injury means you can't count on the guy.  The ACL is just piling on.

As I have said in the past, I am not a fan of comparing QBs directly.  After all, they all are in very different situations in terms of support (coaching, receivers, pass blocking, general talent levels) and scheme. 

Still, one of the problems for Mel Kiper (and anyone in the Draftnik community) is that you are scouting for the world rather than scouting for a team.   The reality is that each NFL team values different traits.  So even if two teams see a player in the same way, they will not rate them the same because each team will be looking for different types of players.  With that said, he is really getting into the weeds when he starts to compare a 5 year QB who has had a career history of poor support and frequent injuries with current draft prospects.

The injuries are a big concern but for me the ability or lack there of to read a defense and process information quickly is a bigger concern relative to Jones' chances of success as a QB.  He's clearly athletic.  His arm is good enough.  He just can't figure out who to throw to or set up his blocking properly.  This is not a new issue, he's had it since college.  It's why he never should have been drafted in the top 10.  I don't know if McCarthy is going to be better than Jones or not.  But I do know Jones isn't it.  So if that means the choices are giving Jones yet another year to establish ever further that he can't do this, or roll the dice with JJ, I'd rather roll the dice.

Quote from: Gmo11 on February 28, 2024, 09:45:06 AMThe injuries are a big concern but for me the ability or lack there of to read a defense and process information quickly is a bigger concern relative to Jones' chances of success as a QB.  He's clearly athletic.  His arm is good enough.  He just can't figure out who to throw to or set up his blocking properly.  This is not a new issue, he's had it since college.  It's why he never should have been drafted in the top 10.  I don't know if McCarthy is going to be better than Jones or not.  But I do know Jones isn't it.  So if that means the choices are giving Jones yet another year to establish ever further that he can't do this, or roll the dice with JJ, I'd rather roll the dice.

I can't rule out that your assessment is correct, but I have to think that Schoen's and Daboll's are significantly different, or they wouldn't have re-signed him to the deal they did.

Quote from: MightyGiants on February 28, 2024, 09:53:16 AMI can't rule out that your assessment is correct, but I have to think that Schoen's and Daboll's are significantly different, or they wouldn't have re-signed him to the deal they did.

schoen and daboll were boxed into an impossible situation after winning when we shouldn't have because all the fanbase saw was the Vikings game and ignored the rest of that season.

Quote from: Gmo11 on February 28, 2024, 09:45:06 AMThe injuries are a big concern but for me the ability or lack there of to read a defense and process information quickly is a bigger concern relative to Jones' chances of success as a QB.  He's clearly athletic.  His arm is good enough.  He just can't figure out who to throw to or set up his blocking properly.  This is not a new issue, he's had it since college.  It's why he never should have been drafted in the top 10.  I don't know if McCarthy is going to be better than Jones or not.  But I do know Jones isn't it.  So if that means the choices are giving Jones yet another year to establish ever further that he can't do this, or roll the dice with JJ, I'd rather roll the dice.

This right here. Injuries are no doubt an issue. But there will be a time when he won't be injured. And then he has to perform. When healthy, he's been mediocre at best. We need better than mediocre.

Charlie from Vermont (a notorious caller on the Giants' inhouse podcast) echos the sentiment of so many here on our forum (and you get to hear Schoen's response)


https://x.com/Mike_NYY/status/1762506919971893432?s=20

Quote from: Gmo11 on February 28, 2024, 09:45:06 AMThe injuries are a big concern but for me the ability or lack there of to read a defense and process information quickly is a bigger concern relative to Jones' chances of success as a QB.  He's clearly athletic.  His arm is good enough.  He just can't figure out who to throw to or set up his blocking properly.  This is not a new issue, he's had it since college.  It's why he never should have been drafted in the top 10.  I don't know if McCarthy is going to be better than Jones or not.  But I do know Jones isn't it.  So if that means the choices are giving Jones yet another year to establish ever further that he can't do this, or roll the dice with JJ, I'd rather roll the dice.

This. As far as resigning him last year until proven otherwise it is my belief that Mara had a big hand in that signing. Hence the 2 year out was a compromise for doing so. This belief is borne out of a quote from Mara "we've done everything we can to screw up this kid". From his lofty perch where the NFL churns out money like Breakstones churns out butter he could well afford his position. His currency is $$$$$, our currency is WINS. There lies the fundamental difference and approach. John, make your money, and just get out of the way.

Quote from: files58 on February 28, 2024, 11:35:46 AMThis. As far as resigning him last year until proven otherwise it is my belief that Mara had a big hand in that signing. Hence the 2 year out was a compromise for doing so. This belief is borne out of a quote from Mara "we've done everything we can to screw up this kid". From his lofty perch where the NFL churns out money like Breakstones churns out butter he could well afford his position. His currency is $$$$$, our currency is WINS. There lies the fundamental difference and approach. John, make your money, and just get out of the way.

To the point in bold, I couldn't help but remember this


The field goal sailed through the uprights, a simultaneous loud bang was heard in the press box and Giants co-owner John Mara walked away from the scene of two knocked-over trash cans near where he watched Sunday's loss to the Falcons.

Mara was surrounded by a handful of other team VIPs who could have been responsible, but detectives looking for circumstantial evidence need only to look at social media for the viral GIF of Mara throwing a chair in the past to connect the dots.




Those are not the actions of a man who only cares about the money

https://nypost.com/2021/09/26/giants-owner-john-mara-seemingly-knocks-over-trash-can/