Big Blue Huddle

And if so, if you could pick between JJ and Maye, whom would you take and why?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on March 24, 2024, 08:47:17 AMAnd if so, if you could pick between JJ and Maye, whom would you take and why?

DB: I wouldn't complain if they did that to get whatever QB they deemed a perfect fit for the Giants.

A move like that would mean they believe the QB they're taking is better (for them) than at least one of the QB's already off the board (if not both of the QB's already off the board).

Needless to say, I would be ecstatic if they made that trade to get Harrison Jr. instead of a QB for two reasons: (1) it would tell me the doctors believe Jones' leg will be fine (and there's no reason to worry about his neck problem); and (2) it would tell me they agree with me that Harrison is a better player than ANY QB in this draft (and they agree that the Giants need a first-rate WR more than a new QB).

Bob

I personally would not. I don't think the Giants have enough draft picks to trade even one away. Still need to plug too many holes.

Quote from: ozzie on March 24, 2024, 08:56:40 AMI personally would not. I don't think the Giants have enough draft picks to trade even one away. Still need to plug too many holes.

Ozzie,

I have plenty of sympathy for your point, as our roster is bereft of talent in a lot of places and we have already traded away one very valuable pick in this offseason, but I would do this myself If I really felt confident I was getting a QB with a genuinely credible chance of being a franchise QB for us for the next 10-15 years. It's hard to put a price on that, and who knows if we'll be in that position in the next offseason.


Two things I know for sure (at least as I see it):

(1) Our future long term answer at QB is not on the team right now, and

(2) You cannot be a consistent Super Bowl contender in today's NFL without an upper echelon QB.


If I'm going to have to give up an extra third rounder to make it happen this year, I can live with that. But I agree that in general we should not be giving picks away like they're candy.

Quote from: ozzie on March 24, 2024, 08:56:40 AMI personally would not. I don't think the Giants have enough draft picks to trade even one away. Still need to plug too many holes.

oz: Agree, but... getting either a QB or WR whom the Giants consider to be a "sure-fire" hit will go a long way to minimize the need for filling EVERY hole and they can use the remainder of this draft to pick one or two of the other holes and concentrate on filling them... which means they can use next year to finish the job.  IMO without either an improvement at the QB position or an elite WR, the Giants can fill all the holes they want this year and it's still unlikely to improve the results for this year. Bob  PS. Nothing wrong with doing it the other way around (i.e., filling as many of the non-QB and non-WR holes as possible this year and completing the job next year). Bob

Quote from: ozzie on March 24, 2024, 08:56:40 AMI personally would not. I don't think the Giants have enough draft picks to trade even one away. Still need to plug too many holes.

Schoen already gave up a low third-round pick for an expensive veteran TE and now has given up a high-second-round pick (and misc. draft capital) for an expensive Edge veteran.   If Schoen continues this pattern, he is going to run into serious cap problems even with the savings a rookie quarterback would bring (minus the cost of getting DJ's contract this year and the $25 million the following year).

Quote from: MightyGiants on March 24, 2024, 10:06:57 AMSchoen already gave up a low third-round pick for an expensive veteran TE and now has given up a high-second-round pick (and misc. draft capital) for an expensive Edge veteran.   If Schoen continues this pattern, he is going to run into serious cap problems even with the savings a rookie quarterback would bring (minus the cost of getting DJ's contract this year and the $25 million the following year).

Rich: You're right, but IMO if Schoen doesn't get a prime-time WR and above-average QB play out of SOME (ANY) QB real soon, he won't have to worry about his cap situation down-the-road, because he'll be out of a job. Bob

I keep harping here about next year. The best approach is to not consider 2024 as anything more than a stepping stone to 2025. They will need a QB one way or the other, this year or next. Though these receivers seem extremely talented, receivers are much easier to find than QBs. And grabbing a QB next year and unless he's CJ Stroud level, delays the rebuild even longer.

Man.  It's tough but I think I would.  Because I'm under the impression that this team isn't that far off from being pretty good if you add competent QB play.  But I wouldn't do it for Maye.  I would't think twice doing it for Daniels.  JJ would make me consider for a long time but I'd probably go for it.  Drake Maye means I pass.

But whatever package the Giants put together the Vikings are going to come over the top anyway.  If the Cardinals are willing to trade that pick I think it's going to the Vikings and only them.  They are a mostly complete team with a gaping hole at QB.  Unless they are somehow infatuated with Penix or Nix and plan to take one of them at 23...I think they will offer whatever it takes to get into the top 5 and jump the Giants for QB4. 

Quote from: katkavage on March 24, 2024, 10:16:06 AMI keep harping here about next year. The best approach is to not consider 2024 as anything more than a stepping stone to 2025. They will need a QB one way or the other, this year or next. Though these receivers seem extremely talented, receivers are much easier to find than QBs. And grabbing a QB next year and unless he's CJ Stroud level, delays the rebuild even longer.

kat: You're right about all of that. If the Eagles could find a way to get AJ Brown, I suppose Schoen can find a way to do the same, somewhere, some time soon. But one problem with getting the QB first is the size of Jones' contract.  Another is that unless they truly believe Hyatt will "step up" this year, they have never had even a potential elite WR for many years. To me, the WR should come first if it's Harrison.  If they can't get him then I'd go for extra 2024 picks (trade down if possible) rather than drafting a QB at Pick Six, but if they do go for a QB without trading down I'll be ok with it because it would likely mean they couldn't get Harrison AND they really like the QB they'd be drafting. It will be very interesting to see what they do. I just hope they don't have to "settle" for trading down. Bob

Giants have so many holes that losing a draft pick to move up seems crazy to me.  If no QB is available at 6 then take a great WR, then let 1st round unfold and if they see a Qb toward end of round 1 they like trade up to get him otherwise fill another hole with round 2, 3 and 4 picks.  Follow Ravens model, not the panicky teams that trade up and get little in return.

Although I hope it won't happen, I probably would if either Maye or Daniels was the target, but not if it was McCarthy. Quite clearly, it's a matter of my estimation of cost/risk/reward without any second-guesser's chirping about Joe Schoen.

Quite obviously, it can be a decision based on whether any or all of this year's, shall we say, top-4 are thought to be much better prospects than for example, Sanders, Allar, Weigman, and Beck will be after their 2024 seasons? And of course, what kind of support will he then get from that which has been wanting in terms of WR1 and Oline?

But then, I suppose that someone here will have it all figured out just in case Joe Schoen hasn't.

Cheers!

Quote from: Philosophers on March 24, 2024, 10:54:18 AMFollow Ravens model, not the panicky teams that trade up and get little in return.

The Ravens may have a model that emphasizes not trading up in general, but they absolutely traded up to get Lamar. And they gave up decent assets to do it. So I'm actually not sure their model applies to when they feel they are getting a franchise QB in return for the trade-up.

If you see a guy that you think is the guy then you do whatever you need to do to get that guy.

You either have a great qb or you don't in the NFL. That's the big differentiator in the NFL currently.

Quote from: Bob In PA on March 24, 2024, 10:11:38 AMRich: You're right, but IMO if Schoen doesn't get a prime-time WR and above-average QB play out of SOME (ANY) QB real soon, he won't have to worry about his cap situation down-the-road, because he'll be out of a job. Bob

Correct. Most likely a new head coach and the Mara carousel continues to spin.

What was the original mission statement again? Or did it get sucked into the black hole with the rest of them in seasons' past?

It might be time to get the guys with the plane who flew it over the stadium during a game in 1978 with a new banner. Come to think of it, maybe we need to contact their kids or grandkids. Do they still fly Cessnas out of Teterboro these days?

Peace!