Big Blue Huddle

I think the Giants feel if they get better OL play especially in pass rush plus get a WR1 and add another RB or TE that a healthy DJ can be a top 12 or maybe top 10 QB and that they can win with that.  I also think they are less concerned than fans are about the injury history and conclude better protection insures against that.  This is the reason they go WR at 6 and maybe RB in round 2 or 3.  If DJ fails, Dabs will be gone and a new coach will then go get another QB in 2025 however the offense will now have a true X WR1, plus a good WanDale and Jalin and a young RB to build around a new rookie QB.

I will concede that, for the most part, the ACL is one of those dumb luck injuries, and most injuries are one-and-done.

I wonder if the Giants thought it would be one and done-after the first neck injury.  That didn't go as planned.

Still, even if one is willing to look past the injury issue, there is another elephant in the room.  The Giants did a historically bad job protecting Jones last season.  It was so bad that even a man as tough as Jones was seeing ghosts.  I think Matt Waldman had the best analogy.  If someone slams the window on your hand every time you put it in the window frame, even the bravest of men will start to flinch when asked to put their hand there again.

I guess I am of the view that if we had just finished the 22 season, I would concur with the Giants' beliefs.  Only it's not 2023, but rather 2024.  Things have changed for the worse in terms of DJ's future prospects.  I am not completely ruling out a chance for success by DJ, but in my mind, those prospects are a bit of a long shot.

To your stated beliefs, I am not sure what the Giants believe at this point as Joe Schoen is pretty good about masking his intentions.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 14, 2024, 09:14:47 AMI think the Giants feel if they get better OL play especially in pass rush plus get a WR1 and add another RB or TE that a healthy DJ can be a top 12 or maybe top 10 QB and that they can win with that.  I also think they are less concerned than fans are about the injury history and conclude better protection insures against that.  This is the reason they go WR at 6 and maybe RB in round 2 or 3.  If DJ fails, Dabs will be gone and a new coach will then go get another QB in 2025 however the offense will now have a true X WR1, plus a good WanDale and Jalin and a young RB to build around a new rookie QB.

I have never seen anything out of Jones in his five years as a Giant that makes me think he can ever exceed what he did in 22. At best he is a mid-level QB. The injuries just cement to me that there is not a chance that the Giants can be successful beyond maybe a wild card appearance with Jones as their QB.

Quote from: katkavage on April 14, 2024, 09:35:13 AMI have never seen anything out of Jones in his five years as a Giant that makes me think he can ever exceed what he did in 22. At best he is a mid-level QB. The injuries just cement to me that there is not a chance that the Giants can be successful beyond maybe a wild card appearance with Jones as their QB.

I think coaching staffs almost always think they can make some players top 10 at their position.  Their egos are too big.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 14, 2024, 09:44:41 AMI think coaching staffs almost always think they can make some players top 10 at their position.  Their egos are too big.

Not happening here. After the Commanders pick their QB there is a very good chance the Giants will have the worst QB in the division.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 14, 2024, 09:14:47 AMI think the Giants feel if they get better OL play especially in pass rush plus get a WR1 and add another RB or TE that a healthy DJ can be a top 12 or maybe top 10 QB and that they can win with that.  I also think they are less concerned than fans are about the injury history and conclude better protection insures against that.  This is the reason they go WR at 6 and maybe RB in round 2 or 3.  If DJ fails, Dabs will be gone and a new coach will then go get another QB in 2025 however the offense will now have a true X WR1, plus a good WanDale and Jalin and a young RB to build around a new rookie QB.

I think they can win games and he was a top twelve QB in 2022. In the right system perhaps he can repeat it. I have my doubts after last season.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-nfl-quarterback-rankings-and-tiers

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 14, 2024, 10:01:29 AMI think they can win games and he was a top twelve QB in 2022. In the right system perhaps he can repeat it. I have my doubts after last season.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2022-nfl-quarterback-rankings-and-tiers

With a 1,500 yard rusher, yeah. And hope the opposition misses chip shot field goals. Wild card is the high ceiling.

Quote from: katkavage on April 14, 2024, 10:09:17 AMWith a 1,500 yard rusher, yeah. And hope the opposition misses chip shot field goals. Wild card is the high ceiling.

I agree, if you have been following my posts on him. I also have cautious enthusiasm for JJ McCarthy but his book in only in the first chapter.

What I am saying is how I think the Giants feel, not how I feel.

I think he is damaged goods both physically and mentally.  Giants failed in protecting him last season so hard to tell what 2023 would have been had he played whole season and gotten sacked say 35 times.  His psyche is affected as he won't gamble on downfield throws.  Now Giants need a new QB.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 14, 2024, 10:16:48 AMWhat I am saying is how I think the Giants feel, not how I feel.

I think he is damaged goods both physically and mentally.  Giants failed in protecting him last season so hard to tell what 2023 would have been had he played whole season and gotten sacked say 35 times.  His psyche is affected as he won't gamble on downfield throws.  Now Giants need a new QB.

I think he's broken.

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 14, 2024, 10:18:46 AMI think he's broken.

That is what I am saying.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 14, 2024, 10:29:49 AMThat is what I am saying.

I know.

Quote from: Ed Vette on April 14, 2024, 10:12:37 AMI agree, if you have been following my posts on him. I also have cautious enthusiasm for JJ McCarthy but his book in only in the first chapter.

I can't break down what makes a great QB in terms of evaluations. I do know McCarthy was at the helm of one of the most successful teams in major college football the past two years. And if the post philosophers had about how coaches think they can make a QB into top ten material, than I think they would be better suited with a younger QB with unlimited potential than one who has played five years and never shown any greatness in the position.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 14, 2024, 10:16:48 AMWhat I am saying is how I think the Giants feel, not how I feel.

If what you say is true, Philo, than we fans are in for an even longer drought of watchable football. And you might be correct. Mara is an owner stuck in the past. He has no vision. His father was the same. They might be nice, loyal, generous people, but as owners of an NFL franchise, they are hopeless.

Here's a question.  If Giants do draft a QB at 6 does ownership give Dabs, Schoen, etc more than just next season to develop him otherwise we run into problem of mismatch between new head coach and previous regime's QB.

Quote from: Philosophers on April 14, 2024, 10:45:08 AMHere's a question.  If Giants do draft a QB at 6 does ownership give Dabs, Schoen, etc more than just next season to develop him otherwise we run into problem of mismatch between new head coach and previous regime's QB.

Yes