Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: uconnjack8 on April 26, 2024, 10:24:24 AMEven if you don't think DJ is the guy, I don't see why drafting a worthy WR at 6 is something to fret over. 

I get people want a different QB.  Truly elite QBs are rare, so if we assume the Giants upgrade DJ with a QB who is not in that category, they will need top tier talent around him.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 10:19:47 AMOn the other side of that coin you have teams like the Eagles, 49ers, and the Cowboys who parlayed talented rosters and QB support into finding their franchise QBs in rounds other than the first one.

2 superbowl appearances, 0 superbowl wins. Cowboys own us, but they are still kind of a hot mess. I mean, now we're back to the "can you find a franchise quarterback somewhere else besides the top 10" discussion, which is usually good for 10 pages or more. The truth is sure you can, but the odds are significantly against you. Almost like catching lightning in a bottle. I don't think most teams really even go after later round quarterbacks with a plan to make him the starter. Usually he's drafted as a backup and the stater gets injured and the backup siezes the opportunity. 

Quote from: TONKA56 on April 26, 2024, 10:35:18 AM2 superbowl appearances, 0 superbowl wins. Cowboys own us, but they are still kind of a hot mess. I mean, now we're back to the "can you find a franchise quarterback somewhere else besides the top 10" discussion, which is usually good for 10 pages or more. The truth is sure you can, but the odds are significantly against you. Almost like catching lightning in a bottle. I don't think most teams really even go after later round quarterbacks with a plan to make him the starter. Usually he's drafted as a backup and the stater gets injured and the backup siezes the opportunity. 

If you value Super Bowls, how about the trophies won by the Bucs (Brady), Rams (Stafford), and the Broncos (Manning) none of whom acquired their QB via the draft (even)?

One thing is for sure, B&Ming and whining after the fact helps no one. And if before the fact, it does little more than to sustain out-of-touch thinking. Nabers was the Giants consensus Mock Draft choice day after day from the start of the silly season through last night. Indeed, "waking up", wishing well, and rooting is what we all should be doing.

Cheers!

I for one, elect to support my team whoever the QB is, whoever the coach is and whoever the owner is.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 08:59:27 AMTim,

I have been a cyclist all my life.  Cyclists are all about making their bikes as light as possible.  Yet the harsh reality is there is no single component that can magically eliminate all the desired weight.  It's take the kickstand away for a few ounces, a different frame, maybe a pound or two, eliminate the peddles a few more ounces, and so on and so on.

To me, that is similar to NFL team building.  An NFL team has 22 starters and many more key role players.  So the addition of a single player is highly unlikely to "move the needle."  What moves the needle is methodically adding quality players (especially in the trenches) over a period of time with a quality coaching staff and culture in place.

As for Jones not being able to "get him the ball," that is more myth (thanks to the BBH echo chamber) than reality.

To add to your analogy, Rich @MightyGiants .

I, too, used to cycle and do 100K rides with the type of riders you described. Me, I was a soccer goalkeeper who was running six miles a day back then, and raced with a mountain bike that was a boat anchor in comparison to the others.

When we'd all be on a level stretch, they'd pull away from me. But, when the steep hills came, they all shifted their gears and were huffing and puffing until they heard the freight train that was me chugging up the hills and passing them, much to their disgust    as my running stamina kicked in and the chorus of obscenities faded as I reached the top and over I went. Of course, as soon as they all made the top, it was over for me as they kicked it into high gear and blew me away and gave me more fanfare as they passed by.

This coming season is not last season. It is going to be different because there are different coaches, players and staff who are going to go about it a different way. How much impact that has on Jones' performance is yet to be seen. Nobody is disagreeing that his overall performance has been disappointing and that he can turn it around in a flash, if at all.

If his new line can give him the time, the Giants' new blue-chip player (NOTE: which I love the pick, btw, as it was an outstanding value pick that also addressed need) and he will develop a relationship and, hopefully, turn bad fortunes around.

But I also agree one player does not a team make. So, back to the drawing board today and let's see what Schoen has up his sleeve.

So far, so good.

Peace!

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 10:37:11 AMIf you value Super Bowls, how about the trophies won by the Bucs (Brady), Rams (Stafford), and the Broncos (Manning) none of whom acquired their QB via the draft (even)?

I guess, if you're fine with all-in one shots. I thought we were trying to build sometime sustainable. I mean, there are at least many examples, and probably a lot more, of teams that brought in a high profile quarterback who was getting long in the tooth and it didn't work out. Either the guy got injured or something else broke down...and then the team succumbed to cap issues and the whole thing desolved.

I'll bow out now.

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 10:18:00 AMI have to confess that when I read comments like this, I feel like people have become emotionally invested in DJ's outcome.  Are you suggesting that protection and receiving don't matter and that a good QB can magically put up big numbers?  That is clearly what the term "excuse making" suggests.  An impartial observer would refer to what you call "excuse making" as a reasoned appreciation that a QB's performance isn't in a vacuum.  The support a QB receives in terms of coaching, protection, and receiving weapons impacts both their play and their development.  It sure seems like your "feelings" are rather perjurative to those who try to have a deeper appreciation of the game.

I'm suggesting, as I wrote in the rest of that post, that when plays were there to be made he didn't make them.  Even if they hadn't won a single game more than they did if the plays that were available to be made were made we'd feel better about Jones.  He simply didn't make them.  Maybe there were only 3 or 4 plays on a given game where he had open receivers and decent protection.  He has to be able to make those plays and he didn't.

Quote from: Gmo11 on April 26, 2024, 08:56:38 AMAnd they already had one of those in Hyatt last year. I love Nabers. And they are stuck with Jones this year no matter what. But it they can't find Jones replacement next year by the time they do Nabers will be approaching free agency and this whole thing would be wasted. No matter how special he is.

Nabers is LIGHT YEARS ahead of jalin hyatt. not even remotely in the same conversation.

Quote from: B1GBLUE on April 26, 2024, 11:41:22 AMNabers is LIGHT YEARS ahead of jalin hyatt. not even remotely in the same conversation.

B-one: I think you may have gone a bit overboard but I agree he's already better and more NFL-ready than Hyatt. lol

The discussions/arguments that go back and forth between the fans who are pro-DJ and negative-DJ, remind me of my college days when I was a math major/computer programming minor. I used to program using IBM punch cards in which each card was a line of code. After finishing a program, I'd wrap a rubber band around the cards, walk across campus to the room that had a compiler. The next day, the results of the program I had written would be in my box. It would be printed out on a single page of green and white track paper, which would then be handed in as my homework assignment. However, when I made a big mistake, I'd get a stack of track paper that resembled a Chicago phone book. The reason: the dreaded "do-loop"...stick with me, there is a point I want to make

In programming in the old days of Fortran, Pascal, etc., lines of code are used to solve a problem. There are "if" statements that are inserted called a conditional process statements that specifies a test expression (basically works like a train railway switch). If the expression does not satisfy the process, it loops back into the program to try a second condition. The "do-loop" hell, is when there is a mistake in the program that causes the secondary "if" statement to run the process right back through the original "if" statement that in turn, cause the compiler to keep running as it is stuck in a never ending loop and printing page after page of bad data

Such is the never ending discussion between those who want DJ replaced ASAP and those who think DJ has not been given the right opportunity to succeed. We are stuck in a never-ending "do-loop" that has been printing paper (in our case, digits on a monitor) for better than a year now. It's the exact same argument on both sides for the millionth time as though if it is made "just one more time", someone will come around and agree. It will never happen. So if we could just go forward and get behind the QB we have, that'd be swell

Edit: this is in response to an earlier post on this thread in which the discussion had turned to "we must replace DJ" and "we need to support DJ"...but as I see this post ending at the end of the thread, it's no longer relevant. My bad[/i]

https://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1783895059282239771

https://x.com/art_stapleton/status/1783886865868746762

Day one of the draft you make headlines that build interest. Days two and three you make picks that build rosters.

No matter how good he is/becomes Nabers will have only a peripheral impact on franchise trajectory unless we make our remaining five picks count to improve other areas

Schoen was correct when he noted we are more than one or two players away. His drafts have contributed to this talent deficit because they have not yet yielded a single slam dunk player on days 2,3.

Bellinger as a solid TE2 and McFadden as ILB2 are arguably the only value picks he has made so far. We can hope other guys like Wandale, JMS, Hyatt, Belton emerge with time/coaching but out of the box it has been a bit disappointing so far if we are honest.

This simply has to improve, both in terms of GM/staff player selection and coaching staff player development, for any Giants fan to have any chance of rediscovering happiness!

Quote from: Bob In PA on April 26, 2024, 11:51:50 AMB-one: I think you may have gone a bit overboard but I agree he's already better and more NFL-ready than Hyatt. lol

Seeing ESPN compare Nabers to Ja'Marr Chase, now THAT'S a comparison I'm paying attention to!!!

Peace!

Quote from: MightyGiants on April 26, 2024, 12:47:58 PMhttps://x.com/DanSchneierNFL/status/1783895059282239771

Rich: I agree with this point-of-view 100 percent and mentioned it briefly elsewhere (maybe even above).

There is a decent probability a veteran QB who's better than average could shake loose in the summer.

Maybe even sooner, if the Giants are willing to part with any of next year's draft picks. It's a real thing.

Bob

Quote from: y_so_blu on April 26, 2024, 09:07:40 AMWe needed a quarterback more than we needed a wide receiver. One of my favorite quarterback prospects fell into our lap at #6 and we didn't take him.

So let me check... no. No, I am not waking up happy.

you can argue we needed a receiver just as bad. and there happened to be a better receiver prospect, by a mile, than any of the remaining qb prospects. thats the simple truth right there.