Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 03, 2024, 12:09:48 PMHow did John and his father manage to go to 5 Super Bowls and bring home four trophies? 

Thank you, Pete Rozelle. He bestowed upon the Giants, whether they liked it or not, George Young. Appointed by Rozelle to save the floundering franchise. Given autonomy, Young put in process a plan. It delivered. And from Young and his doings the Giants got Accorsi. Now John Mara is left to his own devices. So far, not so good. But I'm happy that I experienced those Super Bowl wins.

Bingo.  It's scary what the Giants would have been like if George Young never came.  And, Wellington would never have hired him if he wasn't forced to.

To all.

Go back and get a copy of Dave Klein's paperback, "Giants Again" which tells the most complete story of how the Giants worked through "The Wilderness Years" all the way to the other side with George Young, AND Ray Perkins getting the Giants into the 1981 playoffs. A gutsy call in the 1979 draft to pick Phil Simms, and luck on their side, in the 1981 draft, when the Saints took George Rogers with the first pick, which opened the door for the Giants to select Lawrence Taylor, and the rest is history.

Peace!

Quote from: kartanoman on May 03, 2024, 05:14:15 PMTo all.

Go back and get a copy of Dave Klein's paperback, "Giants Again" which tells the most complete story of how the Giants worked through "The Wilderness Years" all the way to the other side with George Young, AND Ray Perkins getting the Giants into the 1981 playoffs. A gutsy call in the 1979 draft to pick Phil Simms, and luck on their side, in the 1981 draft, when the Saints took George Rogers with the first pick, which opened the door for the Giants to select Lawrence Taylor, and the rest is history.

Peace!

Remember it well. Gutsy was going with unproven Bill Parcels after Perkins left. And sticking with him after that terrible first year. I compare it somewhat to when George Steinbrenner was exiled for a few years and Gene Michael went to work on the Yankees without interference. Results followed.

At one point Jim Dolan was a meddling owner who managed to destroy two flagship franchises for nearly three decades. Always the slow learner it took him nearly 20 years to realize that he was the problem. He has largely removed himself from the day to day operations of both franchises to great success.  Perhaps after a decade of futility the Mara's have come to the conclusion that their meddling is the problem. It's entirely possible that Gettleman was a puppet and Schoen has free rein. Rose and Drury have free rein but Isaiah Thomas and Glenn Sather were incompetent yes men who clung to power because they largely insulated Dolan from direct criticism. I don't understand why that's difficult to comprehend. No conspiracy as far as I can tell.

I've shared this before. Pretty great read. 

https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2016/08/07/wilderness-years-new-york-giants-1964-1978/

Quote from: katkavage on May 03, 2024, 01:23:53 PMThank you, Pete Rozelle. He bestowed upon the Giants, whether they liked it or not, George Young. Appointed by Rozelle to save the floundering franchise. Given autonomy, Young put in process a plan. It delivered. And from Young and his doings the Giants got Accorsi. Now John Mara is left to his own devices. So far, not so good. But I'm happy that I experienced those Super Bowl wins.

That is correct Kat, but in those days, when Wellington was the boss, our GM, Mr. Young, was lord and master over everything. To the best of my memory, Wellington never meddled into anything Giants business. Young did as he pleased, hired, fired, drafted and if he needed to run it by Wellington, which I doubt, it was just a sign-off. We used to say the BM of the Giants was a job for life unless they wanted to step down. I believe Accorias had similar power, It wasn't until Wellington passed and John took over, that the meddling started. Now our GM is more of a figurehead if he ahs to get John to sign off on everything.

Check out this article

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-news-why-did-new-york-giants-decide-to-stick-with-daniel-jones-co-owner-john-mara-s-heavy-influence/ar-AA1o6pTR?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=42a08b899d914261ad02f74e778ca1e0&ei=9

Quote from: LennG on May 03, 2024, 08:25:21 PMThat is correct Kat, but in those days, when Wellington was the boss, our GM, Mr. Young, was lord and master over everything. To the best of my memory, Wellington never meddled into anything Giants business. Young did as he pleased, hired, fired, drafted and if he needed to run it by Wellington, which I doubt, it was just a sign-off. We used to say the BM of the Giants was a job for life unless they wanted to step down. I believe Accorias had similar power, It wasn't until Wellington passed and John took over, that the meddling started. Now our GM is more of a figurehead if he ahs to get John to sign off on everything.

Len, he agreed to the job only if he had that autonomy. It was part of the deal brokered by Rozelle. And one of his first moves in his rebuild. Knowing a QB was the essential first step. He drafted Phil Simms.

Quote from: AZGiantFan on May 03, 2024, 11:28:44 AMI don't think he interferes with decisions so much as he just can't shut up.

This.

John Mara is what the kids now call a "nepo baby". He's where he is because the job fell into his lap as Wellington's son (and Wellington inherited HIS role from HIS daddy). He literally has nothing else to do besides the Giants. No real job. No outside business of his own. So he talks. A lot.

George Young ran the team as a dictator. For better or worse. In effect, the NFL took over the Giants franchise in 1979 after "The Fumble" because Wellington Mara had run it into the ground with 15 years of mismanagement and awful decision-making and his nephew Tim, Jr., had to step in and block Wellington's rule. Wellington and his side of the family owned 50% of the franchise and Tim's family (as the son of Wellington's sister) owned the other 50%. Pete Rozelle essentially forced Wellington to hire Young as a GM and to become a figurehead signing checks and hanging out on the field with the players while Young ran the show. That went really well for about 10 years until Young lost his touch in the 1990s, especially when he drafted Dave Brown and cut Phil Simms about 2-3 years too soon (though he did manage to draft Michael Strahan and Tiki Barber before retiring). Accorsi wasn't a great GM but he drafted Eli and Tom Coughlin was hired as HC during his tenure (against Accorsi's desires, he and Coughlin didn't really get along). By then, the Maras were once again involved in decision-making.

The Giants ownership is an odd structure. John Mara is not the owner. He and his brother Chris are part co-owners, and their side of the Mara family owns 50% of the team. The other 50% is owned by the Tisch family, which bought that share from Tim Mara, Jr.'s family. For me, the problem begins once the ownership and professional side are mixed. For instance, Chris Mara is both a Giants executive and a co-owner. Which means, essentially, that he can never be fired. And John Mara cannot be fired as team president, though he is clearly incompetent at his job.

The Giants have been a bad team since 2012 because, essentially, the owners have made a string of poor hires at both the GM position (Gettleman, who wasn't a puppet, just bad), and head coach (McAdoo, Shurmur, Judge, while the jury is out on Daboll). It's as simple as that. 

Quote from: BlueMoshik on May 04, 2024, 06:23:27 AMGeorge Young ran the team as a dictator. For better or worse. In effect, the NFL took over the Giants franchise in 1979 after "The Fumble" because Wellington Mara had run it into the ground with 15 years of mismanagement and awful decision-making and his nephew Tim, Jr., had to step in and block Wellington's rule. Wellington and his side of the family owned 50% of the franchise and Tim's family (as the son of Wellington's sister) owned the other 50%. Pete Rozelle essentially forced Wellington to hire Young as a GM and to become a figurehead signing checks and hanging out on the field with the players while Young ran the show. That went really well for about 10 years until Young lost his touch in the 1990s, especially when he drafted Dave Brown and cut Phil Simms about 2-3 years too soon (though he did manage to draft Michael Strahan and Tiki Barber before retiring). Accorsi wasn't a great GM but he drafted Eli and Tom Coughlin was hired as HC during his tenure (against Accorsi's desires, he and Coughlin didn't really get along). By then, the Maras were once again involved in decision-making.

The Giants ownership is an odd structure. John Mara is not the owner. He and his brother Chris are part co-owners, and their side of the Mara family owns 50% of the team. The other 50% is owned by the Tisch family, which bought that share from Tim Mara, Jr.'s family. For me, the problem begins once the ownership and professional side are mixed. For instance, Chris Mara is both a Giants executive and a co-owner. Which means, essentially, that he can never be fired. And John Mara cannot be fired as team president, though he is clearly incompetent at his job.

The Giants have been a bad team since 2012 because, essentially, the owners have made a string of poor hires at both the GM position (Gettleman, who wasn't a puppet, just bad), and head coach (McAdoo, Shurmur, Judge, while the jury is out on Daboll). It's as simple as that. 

Perfect post that sums up the state of the Giants. I agree that Young did lose touch. The Ray Handley hiring, though he had to rush into that was a debacle. And then the Dave Brown mistake. You are very correct about how John Mara, whether he wants to or not, is involved in the running of the football team. I repeat that there is no conspiracy. It's just that Mara hires those he feels comfortable with and are aligned with his conservative (in team running) sensibilities. He wants someone on the same page as he is. Thus we fans have suffered for over a decade with no end in sight unless lady luck interferes.

Quote from: nb587 on May 03, 2024, 04:48:41 PMBingo.  It's scary what the Giants would have been like if George Young never came.  And, Wellington would never have hired him if he wasn't forced to.

The Detroit Lions, that's what we would've been.

Conspiracy Theories: The bastion of the weak minded. 

Quote from: Ed Vette on May 05, 2024, 07:43:04 AMConspiracy Theories: The bastion of the weak minded. 

And there are many many weak minded out there these days.