Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 11:18:54 AMThere is nothing to resolve if you agree that players are more important than coaches overall. That's all I am saying. If you think coaches are more important than players, or even that the two are equal, then
we can mutually respectfully agree to disagree.

If coaches don't count more than players that list Mighty posted of pff grades for all our olinemen would seem to negate all the optimism being expressed about how the Giants should have an average Oline.  OTOH, a bad Oline coach like Johnson can certainly have a negative effect.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 11:54:03 AMThe NFL is a for profit business. It's all about maxing out profits. That is not the case with education and teachers. So I respectfully disagree with this comparison.

To Mighty's point some think finding a special talent at a position like QB is harder than finding a 'good enough' coach to coach him.

So I think there is some truth in what everyone is asserting here.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 11:54:03 AMThe NFL is a for profit business. It's all about maxing out profits. That is not the case with education and teachers. So I respectfully disagree with this comparison.

There is a big difference between winning and maxing out profits in the NFL.

I guess this isn't a Tommy Devito thread any longer. 

Quote from: Uncle Mickey on May 04, 2024, 11:59:19 AMTo Mighty's point some think finding a special talent at a position like QB is harder than finding a 'good enough' coach to coach him.

So I think there is some truth in what everyone is asserting here.

From what I have seen, the Giants have struggled just as much to find a proper replacement for Tom Coughlin as they have trying to replace Eli Manning (perhaps even more so)

Quote from: MightyGiants on May 04, 2024, 07:05:58 AM100s of QB have played against bad teams, and never had they done what DJ did.   Look, in the end, you and @kingm56 and the other critics of Jones could ultimately be proven correct in that he will never be a quality starting quarterback.  In fact, with every season that they screw the young man up, it's looking more and more that DJ is never going to succeed.

That said, I would appreciate it if we try to be fair.  There have been flashes of brilliance by Jones; that is something most reasonable people would agree.   Flashes of brilliance don't mean Jones will ultimately be successful, so why not just concede the more than fair point?   It's like the other claim I hear from some of the critics, claiming the Giants have no one to throw them the ball.  As Jordan Raanan says, that's silly.  Jones has his flaws, but he is also an NFL thrower.  It's not like Jones is some little leaguer trying to play in the majors.

I don't think it hurts your case to concede the positives of the man.  If anything, it gives your opinions more validity because it shows you are capable of seeing and acknowledging the good and the bad.  If someone is only willing to see what supports their beliefs and finds excuses to dismiss anything else,  I tend not to value those opinions very highly as they are formed with a flawed process.

So we don't have to agree, but we all should find common ground in acknowledging the good and the bad.

that's just the point
He flashes brilliance but is not a reliable week to week performer
he lacks the subtle abilities that make for a solid franchise QB
can't make the throws downfield outside the numbers
can't sense the rush
can't often find the open target
hesitates with his release

much like Sequon flashed brilliance and spent the rest of the day dancing

Quote from: BluesCruz on May 04, 2024, 01:46:28 PMthat's just the point
He flashes brilliance but is not a reliable week to week performer
he lacks the subtle abilities that make for a solid franchise QB
can't make the throws downfield outside the numbers
can't sense the rush
can't often find the open target
hesitates with his release

much like Sequon flashed brilliance and spent the rest of the day dancing

Saquon has consistently produced at a high level when healthy. Jones has not.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 04, 2024, 02:01:05 PMSaquon has consistently produced at a high level when healthy. Jones has not.

How?

His running is littered with no gains and occasional long runs
He often dropped outlet passes
He was hesitant and a poor blocking back
The biggest issue is the Giants spoon fed him the ball all day and everyone knew what was coming
He rarely broke tackles and arm tackles took him down

He was no Tiki Barber that's for sure

We will see if having a "better Line" rights his ship
If not he goes down as one our worst draft picks of all time

No Gold Jackets Im afraid

Quote from: BluesCruz on May 05, 2024, 07:27:01 AMHow?

His running is littered with no gains and occasional long runs
He often dropped outlet passes
He was hesitant and a poor blocking back
The biggest issue is the Giants spoon fed him the ball all day and everyone knew what was coming
He rarely broke tackles and arm tackles took him down

He was no Tiki Barber that's for sure

We will see if having a "better Line" rights his ship
If not he goes down as one our worst draft picks of all time

No Gold Jackets Im afraid

My point was not that Saquon was a perfect player or the best running back in the league - simply that, when healthy, he has generally produced at a high level. 98.8 all-purpose yards per game over the course of his 74 game career, and that actually includes all the games where he was clearly playing at a less than healthy level, ie the entire 2021 season and parts of other seasons when he came back from injuries sooner than expected and took a handful of games to get back to his normal self.

Jones' career numbers are clearly not anywhere near the QB-equivalent level of production that Saquon's are. I think that is plain as day, frankly.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on May 05, 2024, 08:32:14 AMMy point was not that Saquon was a perfect player or the best running back in the league - simply that, when healthy, he has generally produced at a high level. 98.8 all-purpose yards per game over the course of his 74 game career, and that actually includes all the games where he was clearly playing at a less than healthy level, ie the entire 2021 season and parts of other seasons when he came back from injuries sooner than expected and took a handful of games to get back to his normal self.

Jones' career numbers are clearly not anywhere near the QB-equivalent level of production that Saquon's are. I think that is plain as day, frankly.

You know I secretly never thought we could sniff a SB with those two in the backfield

Barkley is gone and overpaid Danny is going. Schoen will ease him to the side door this coming off season

There is hope for the future

Schoen likely felt like me but had to placate his boss and bide his time getting rid of them....anyway that's a thought.  Im happy with that possible addition by subtraction

Quote from: Jclayton92 on May 03, 2024, 03:57:05 PMIs it really a flash of brilliance if Baker Mayfield, Dak and Jameis Winston are also listed?

With his supporting cast it illudes to great ability, if not brilliance.

Quote from: GloryDays on May 06, 2024, 11:05:17 PMWith his supporting cast it illudes to great ability, if not brilliance.

uh huh