Big Blue Huddle

Quote from: H-Town G-Fan on October 17, 2024, 04:15:50 PMA few pieces away--the pieces are critical though.

That's really the point about the cop-out option @Ed Vette added to my poll.   It's really meaningless to say the team is headed in the right direction after 3 years when you are qualifying it by saying they still need multiple key pieces

Quote from: Gmo11 on October 18, 2024, 09:13:37 AMThere's a lot of validity to that, but if you remember before the season we had a heated debate around these parts whether you should build a team starting with a QB or ending with a QB.  It was fairly split but it seems the Giants have done the latter.  They have a team.   A good team.  With a bad QB.  Get the QB and they have the full rookie contract window to try and win.  Easier said than done of course but that does appear to be their plan.

This is where I stand. If they draft a QB next year and he hits, the Giants' Super Bowl window is suddenly wide open with a QB on his rookie contract. But I do get where people are coming from that without the QB the rest is pretty much moot.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 18, 2024, 09:16:33 AMThat's really the point about the cop-out option @Ed Vette added to my poll.   It's really meaningless to say the team is headed in the right direction after 3 years when you are qualifying it by saying they still need multiple key pieces

Actually just one key piece. The QB will make them a competitive team. The next draft will establish depth. This year's draft class may be his best so far. It can take a few years to build via the draft. You hit some and you miss some but it's better than spending big bucks that turn out to be a bandaid of high paid complacency.

Until the QB position is sorted out, this team ain't going anywhere.

The team does possess a myriad of talent across the board. However, some of the early picks (Barkley, Jones, Neal, Thibs) didn't return the value you wanted from top 10 picks.

Quote from: Ed Vette on October 18, 2024, 09:33:48 AMActually just one key piece. The QB will make them a competitive team. The next draft will establish depth. This year's draft class may be his best so far. It can take a few years to build via the draft. You hit some and you miss some but it's better than spending big bucks that turn out to be a bandaid of high paid complacency.

Barring losing all other games and the bad teams winning more than 2, it will likely take most of the draft capital of the next two drafts to acquire a chance at a potential franchise QB, assuming any of the QB prospects truly have franchise potential (hasn't looked promising to date).

I think to be going in the right direction we need to be able to stop the run and also to run effectively.

I understand the QB variable in all of this plays a factor. But as long as he is playing this season, no matter what, his impact to making the team better or worse is not relevant to this discussion because we know what we have in him and his relative expected productivity. As a result of this, going into the season, I felt that QB play was NOT a strategic imperative for season 2024 success or progress. Instead, I focused on three others you all have seen me write about which mean more, in my opinion:

SI1: Fix the damned offensive line, once and for all!

SI2: Close the gap between the Giants and their key division rivals (i.e. Dallas and Philadelphia)

SI3: Improve the Lost Man-Games due to Injury metric from 2023 (84.4)

It is still a little early to give these a fair grade, but I think we all see where these are trending.

SI1: GREEN. Maybe one of the most pleasant surprises of the season to date. No longer a Swiss cheese, Carmen Bricillo has done very well to stabilize the line for the offense to function more cohesively so far. Watch item will be the loss of Thomas for the rest of the season and how this group responds. There is no question the offensive line performance has improved over last season. The ultimate test will be sustaining the gains made without their best player in the lineup.

SI2: YELLOW. There is still not enough data to grade this one with any confidence. All we have is the Dallas game and, although the final score was closer than either of last season's blowouts, there was still plenty of evidence to suggest the Giants still have a ways to go. The Cowboys running game issues disappeared as their line controlled the Giants at times. The Giants offense had plenty of chances to get into the end zone but could only muster five field goals. In certain situations, you have to be determined and, during those times, I'm not sure they were. Be it poor play calling, terrible execution or the Cowboys defense wanted it more, or maybe they were just better, the Giants still have to get over that hump. They're at the base of it, but seem to not know how to get over it. We'll learn a lot more when they play the Iggles this weekend. But Sunday is a run for record against SI2, for certain.

SI3: YELLOW. A couple of weeks ago, I would have rated this GREEN. But when the best players start wearing down, and eventually succumb to injury, that means they've been holding up the fort for too long and way more than their capacity. Injuries happen, and some of the best in the league have already gone down for the season. Some suggested the Giants were actually doing well in this category for a while. But the schedule gets tougher, the games get more physical, the more we will see casualties. When you lose top players this early in the season, your Lost Man-Games number is going to grow fast. Losing Thomas for the season is a prime example. When you add it up, nothing impacts a team more than injuries and players either being out or playing at less than 100%.

Taken together, a GREEN and two YELLOWS might not seem all that bad for this team. Truthfully, it isn't at all. You can see areas of development, growth and budding stars coming to the forefront. The team, save for opening day, has been competitive against their schedule to date. Their offensive line has been a pleasant surprise and, when they can get the ball to Nabers, exciting things happen. Their defense has been heroic in keeping the team in games.

Would you be surprised that I actually voted they are spinning their wheels?

Here's why:

1. They have a QB problem they are stuck with for this year, with no firm plan forward for next year, unless they stick with the incumbent.

2. Special teams is a mess in losing both kicking specialists. This is the second time in two seasons they have a backup kicker. Now, they have a backup punter. Both have hamstring issues. Not a good place to be. Meanwhile they have a young, capable Irish kicker on the practice squad who looked great in pre-season, kicked at Rutgers and knows the weather and wind in NJ, and won't get his shot. Bottom line, how have special teams impacted games, positive and negative, and is that truly progress.

3. Injuries incurred on the Sardine Can Turf Monster. Count them if you can, but the supposed "better" field turf is still yielding injuries to players. Thomas and Nabers are the most glaring, but a lot of groin and hamstring injuries are keeping starters out. It remains a subject of concern and opponents' players have not been immune to it either.

Business as usual is no longer acceptable unless you revolt as customers and the corporations pull their support for you. With the Giants, that is never likely to occur.

In one week's time, the documentary I have been waiting for, "The Duke," will premiere on NFL Network. The family business will be shown to us through the lens of its inevitable patriarch, Wellington Mara. But what's ironic is that The Duke himself steered any credit given away from him and placed on the people he claimed truly deserved it, his father, Tim and especially his brother, Jack. He had been a caretaker after his brother's passing in 1965, and all of us have taken that ride to the bottom, and out, to the Wilderness, for many years.

Those who remember those times, and often the hopelessness that went with them, it was still the Giants fans keeping the flicker of light burning, in hopes of better times.

Wellington never forgot that lesson, when the Giants finally broke out and made it to the top, that the loyalty of the Giant fan was something he took for granted, and realized just how important we were in achieving their ultimate success.

The program will have former players who knew Wellington and will share their testimony as well as discuss other important NFL historical milestones which helped make the league what it became because of the influence of the Mara family.

That is the legacy of the Giants and that is how they go about their business. It is a complicated story; every bit as much as our discussions on this forum, at times. But there-in lies the love and passion they, and we, have for the Football Giants.

This team is going to spin for a while, but they are tough and won't quit. But at the end of the season, individual improvements haven't moved the collective needle sufficiently.

Expect changes next season!

Peace!

Look at it position by position, year by year since they started losing.

QB-Eli couldn't help them win his last few years. Jones was terrible as a rookie, out major parts of 2 seasons and has been inconsistent when the line blocks well.

Line-Better this year, but for how long? Their best lineman is injury prone. A couple are patch work from the Raiders.

TE When was the last time they had a TE that could block and catch?

RB Big question mark, even when Barkley was here.

WR This area looks the best since Cruz and Nicks, but too many drops.

Place Kicker Was OK, now a need.

DL It was better after Leonard Williams and Dexter Lawrence got here but now Williams is gone.

LB This area is improved.

DB Gone are Mckinney, Love, Bradberry, Ryan & Peppers. Is Jackson on the downside of his career? Is this year's team better than in the past?

I'd say, this team is just spinning its wheels and has not laid down a solid foundation

Ask yourself this question: would you say the majority of knowledgeable NFL fans around the league who neither actively root for or root against the Giants think they're a team on the rise?

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 18, 2024, 03:30:45 PMAsk yourself this question: would you say the majority of knowledgeable NFL fans around the league who neither actively root for or root against the Giants think they're a team on the rise?

With that idea in mind, I wonder what people outside the fanbase or Giants' punditry think of the direction of the team.

Quote from: MightyGiants on October 18, 2024, 03:41:43 PMWith that idea in mind, I wonder what people outside the fanbase or Giants' punditry think of the direction of the team.

I don't think Hard Knocks made our front office or coaching staff look great, and there aren't many people out there who think Jones is good. I just find it hard to imagine the franchise is viewed in a positive way right now by unbiased observers.

Quote from: TONKA56 on October 17, 2024, 09:34:51 AMI'd like to say yes but unfortunately I believe the root issue lies with John and Chris Mara and the nepotistic culture they foster. There are too many unfireable, unaccountable executives in high positions including Tim McDonnell and Ronnie Barnes.  I voted "I don't know."

agree ....need A QB to spark offense. .....noy sure who . time is running out for Jones

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 18, 2024, 03:30:45 PMAsk yourself this question: would you say the majority of knowledgeable NFL fans around the league who neither actively root for or root against the Giants think they're a team on the rise?

Nope but in fairness would fans of other teams have the detailed knowldege to know which teams are on the rise?  That would require a lot of knowledge on players and position groups.

Quote from: DaveBrown74 on October 18, 2024, 03:30:45 PMAsk yourself this question: would you say the majority of knowledgeable NFL fans around the league who neither actively root for or root against the Giants think they're a team on the rise?

No they wouldn't expect the Giants to be anything at all.  But they also would have said the same thing about Washington...right up until they saw Jayden Daniels plays.  Now I would be willing to bet to a man they'd say Washington is well positioned for the future.  Because they are.  If the Giants get the right QB next year they will rapidly be considered a potential contender.  Easier said than done but that's what they have to do.

I have faith in schoen and Daboll. With a Qb Daboll can win imo.