Big Blue Huddle

https://x.com/RealTannenbaum/status/1859998941200417105

The Giants are freed from the last remaining mistake of the Gettleman era. It took way longer than it should have. Good luck to DJ, but I am more than ready to move on.

Quote from: y_so_blu on November 22, 2024, 01:54:58 PMThe Giants are freed from the last remaining mistake of the Gettleman era. It took way longer than it should have. Good luck to DJ, but I am more than ready to move on.

What you described happened at the end of the 2022 season

Quote from: y_so_blu on November 22, 2024, 01:54:58 PMThe Giants are freed from the last remaining mistake of the Gettleman era. It took way longer than it should have. Good luck to DJ, but I am more than ready to move on.

I am with you, as are the vast majority of Giants fans. Gettleman set us back so many years drafting this guy.

With him officially and fully gone, they will finally be able to move forward.

He worked hard and had a great work ethic, and is of high character. It is such a shame that we was simply awful on the field.

I believe aside from players who are actually good, he was in fact the last DG mistake on the roster. Now if we can only remove Barnes somehow.....

I had two immediate reactions to this which are seemingly at odds, but aren't if you know me.

1 - I feel bad for Daniel Jones.  Football is a team sport.  He contributed to some poor teams.  He is not a good NFL quarterback and is unlikely to develop as one.  But he gave it his all.  He was total class.  He never threw a teammate or coach under the bus.  He played hard-nosed.  He did what he was asked and didn't whine to the media.  I'm sorry that the New York Giants failed with him and really do hope he finds a new home as backup somewhere because he's very viable in that regard.
2 - my human reaction was nearly to come on the board and say "HAHA I TOLD YOU SO".  I've never been that bragadocious though and doing it here would ring hollow.  I always rooted for Daniel Jones even though I thought his signing to be a mistake.  Nobody gets every player right, but it was nice to pat myself on the back as armchair GM. 

Quote from: zephirus on November 22, 2024, 02:36:31 PMI had two immediate reactions to this which are seemingly at odds, but aren't if you know me.

1 - I feel bad for Daniel Jones.  Football is a team sport.  He contributed to some poor teams.  He is not a good NFL quarterback and is unlikely to develop as one.  But he gave it his all.  He was total class.  He never threw a teammate or coach under the bus.  He played hard-nosed.  He did what he was asked and didn't whine to the media.  I'm sorry that the New York Giants failed with him and really do hope he finds a new home as backup somewhere because he's very viable in that regard.
2 - my human reaction was nearly to come on the board and say "HAHA I TOLD YOU SO".  I've never been that bragadocious though and doing it here would ring hollow.  I always rooted for Daniel Jones even though I thought his signing to be a mistake.  Nobody gets every player right, but it was nice to pat myself on the back as armchair GM. 

They aren't at odds. They are very different sentiments about the same person for different reasons.

- Daniel Jones is a great human being and teammate, by all accounts.
- Daniel Jones does not have the complete tool set to be a starting-caliber QB in the NFL. He can extend his career as a backup.
- Fans who did not see Jones as a viable starting QB have been proven correct.

All of those statements are not opinions. They are proven facts. It's OK to believe all of them without being contradictory.

Quote from: T200 on November 22, 2024, 03:00:55 PMThey aren't at odds. They are very different sentiments about the same person for different reasons.

- Daniel Jones is a great human being and teammate, by all accounts.
- Daniel Jones does not have the complete tool set to be a starting-caliber QB in the NFL. He can extend his career as a backup.
- Fans who did not see Jones as a viable starting QB have been proven correct.

All of those statements are not opinions. They are proven facts. It's OK to believe all of them without being contradictory.

Number one is technically a belief or opinion.

Number two and number three, to be factual, would be stated-  Daniel Jones did not perform his job as a starting QB to the satisfaction of the NY Giants.

That is the factual part of those statements; the rest falls under beliefs and opinions and gets a bit more muddy.  Hell, some of the claims could ultimately be proven incorrect if DJ does what Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, or Geno Smith have done with their careers, so clearly the complete claims can't be consider facts.


A fact is verifiable. We can determine whether it is true by researching the evidence. This may involve numbers, dates, testimony, etc. (Ex.: "World War II ended in 1945.") The truth of the fact is beyond argument if one can assume that measuring devices or records or memories are correct. Facts provide crucial support for the assertion of an argument. However, facts by themselves are worthless unless we put them in context, draw conclusions, and, thus, give them meaning.

An opinion is a judgment based on facts, an honest attempt to draw a reasonable conclusion from factual evidence. (For example, we know that millions of people go without proper medical care, and so you form the opinion that the country should institute national health insurance even though it would cost billions of dollars.) An opinion is potentially changeable--depending on how the evidence is interpreted. By themselves, opinions have little power to convince. You must always let your reader know what your evidence is and how it led you to arrive at your opinion.

Unlike an opinion, a belief is a conviction based on cultural or personal faith, morality, or values. Statements such as "Capital punishment is legalized murder" are often called "opinions" because they express viewpoints, but they are not based on facts or other evidence. They cannot be disproved or even contested in a rational or logical manner. Since beliefs are inarguable, they cannot serve as the thesis of a formal argument. (Emotional appeals can, of course, be useful if you happen to know that your audience shares those beliefs.)

Another kind of assertion that has no place in serious argumentation is prejudice, a half-baked opinion based on insufficient or unexamined evidence. (Ex.: "Women are bad drivers.") Unlike a belief, a prejudice is testable: it can be contested and disproved on the basis of facts. We often form prejudices or accept them from others--family, friends, the media, etc.--without questioning their meaning or testing their truth. At best, prejudices are careless oversimplifications. At worst, they reflect a narrow-minded view of the world. Most of all, they are not likely to win the confidence or agreement of your readers.

https://writing.colostate.edu/guides/teaching/co300man/pop12d.cfm

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 22, 2024, 03:12:50 PMNumber one is technically a belief or opinion.

Number two and number three, to be factual, would be stated-  Daniel Jones did not perform his job as a starting QB to the satisfaction of the NY Giants.

That is the factual part of those statements; the rest falls under beliefs and opinions and gets a bit more muddy.  Hell, some of the claims could ultimately be proven incorrect if DJ does what Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, or Geno Smith have done with their careers, so clearly the complete claims can't be consider facts.


A fact is verifiable. We can determine whether it is true by researching the evidence. This may involve numbers, dates, testimony, etc. (Ex.: "World War II ended in 1945.") The truth of the fact is beyond argument if one can assume that measuring devices or records or memories are correct. Facts provide crucial support for the assertion of an argument. However, facts by themselves are worthless unless we put them in context, draw conclusions, and, thus, give them meaning.

An opinion is a judgment based on facts, an honest attempt to draw a reasonable conclusion from factual evidence. (For example, we know that millions of people go without proper medical care, and so you form the opinion that the country should institute national health insurance even though it would cost billions of dollars.) An opinion is potentially changeable--depending on how the evidence is interpreted. By themselves, opinions have little power to convince. You must always let your reader know what your evidence is and how it led you to arrive at your opinion.

Unlike an opinion, a belief is a conviction based on cultural or personal faith, morality, or values. Statements such as "Capital punishment is legalized murder" are often called "opinions" because they express viewpoints, but they are not based on facts or other evidence. They cannot be disproved or even contested in a rational or logical manner. Since beliefs are inarguable, they cannot serve as the thesis of a formal argument. (Emotional appeals can, of course, be useful if you happen to know that your audience shares those beliefs.)

Another kind of assertion that has no place in serious argumentation is prejudice, a half-baked opinion based on insufficient or unexamined evidence. (Ex.: "Women are bad drivers.") Unlike a belief, a prejudice is testable: it can be contested and disproved on the basis of facts. We often form prejudices or accept them from others--family, friends, the media, etc.--without questioning their meaning or testing their truth. At best, prejudices are careless oversimplifications. At worst, they reflect a narrow-minded view of the world. Most of all, they are not likely to win the confidence or agreement of your readers.

https://writing.colostate.edu/guides/teaching/co300man/pop12d.cfm

You made numerous posts about his character and how loved and respected he is. He has demonstrated those traits and qualities and they are undisputed.

The lack of a qualifying statement as you suggested doesn't make it less of a fact.

I feel like you're picking nits. You didn't dispute any of the statements other than to categorize/qualify them differently.

 You know I can see a team like the Vikings picking him up. JJ is going to be their starter but they have Cousins on a huge salary. Jones could be the perfect backup for JJ and gives them the option to release Cousins.

The Montreal Alouettes should go all in to make Jones the highest paid QB in the CFL.

Well, fans..I knew this could not stand..Jones being humiliated. No credit to the brass..he had to get it through their numbskulls..no!!

Gimme a break.His demotion would have infuriated me, too. 4th string? Omg. Cmon. Like victim shaming garbage..he tried his best..and then throw him under the bus..?? I am so distant now to this franchise I loved

Good for DJ to think proudly...don't want my services..okay..humiliate me..no

Quote from: coggs on November 22, 2024, 11:37:45 AMhttps://x.com/rapsheet/status/1859998496239313203?s=46

One thing this quote tells me, Jones was reporting directly to Mara. He didn't go to Daboll or Schoen for this discussion.

Quote from: T200 on November 22, 2024, 03:18:41 PMYou made numerous posts about his character and how loved and respected he is. He has demonstrated those traits and qualities and they are undisputed.

The lack of a qualifying statement as you suggested doesn't make it less of a fact.

I feel like you're picking nits. You didn't dispute any of the statements other than to categorize/qualify them differently.

Tim,

It's very difficult to describe a character in a factual manner.

For example, I can't factually say DJ is the hardest worker on the team

I could point to a fact, such as he is the first player in the facility and the last to leave, to support my opinion about DJ's work ethic.

"Issue is cash, and there is none remaining to be paid to Jones after December. 
That's what owners care about more than Cap accounting."

If this is true it clearly demonstrate that owners care more about money than winning.

Quote from: MightyGiants on November 22, 2024, 03:12:50 PMNumber one is technically a belief or opinion.

Number two and number three, to be factual, would be stated-  Daniel Jones did not perform his job as a starting QB to the satisfaction of the NY Giants.

That is the factual part of those statements; the rest falls under beliefs and opinions and gets a bit more muddy.  Hell, some of the claims could ultimately be proven incorrect if DJ does what Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, or Geno Smith have done with their careers, so clearly the complete claims can't be consider facts.


A fact is verifiable. We can determine whether it is true by researching the evidence. This may involve numbers, dates, testimony, etc. (Ex.: "World War II ended in 1945.") The truth of the fact is beyond argument if one can assume that measuring devices or records or memories are correct. Facts provide crucial support for the assertion of an argument. However, facts by themselves are worthless unless we put them in context, draw conclusions, and, thus, give them meaning.

An opinion is a judgment based on facts, an honest attempt to draw a reasonable conclusion from factual evidence. (For example, we know that millions of people go without proper medical care, and so you form the opinion that the country should institute national health insurance even though it would cost billions of dollars.) An opinion is potentially changeable--depending on how the evidence is interpreted. By themselves, opinions have little power to convince. You must always let your reader know what your evidence is and how it led you to arrive at your opinion.

Unlike an opinion, a belief is a conviction based on cultural or personal faith, morality, or values. Statements such as "Capital punishment is legalized murder" are often called "opinions" because they express viewpoints, but they are not based on facts or other evidence. They cannot be disproved or even contested in a rational or logical manner. Since beliefs are inarguable, they cannot serve as the thesis of a formal argument. (Emotional appeals can, of course, be useful if you happen to know that your audience shares those beliefs.)

Another kind of assertion that has no place in serious argumentation is prejudice, a half-baked opinion based on insufficient or unexamined evidence. (Ex.: "Women are bad drivers.") Unlike a belief, a prejudice is testable: it can be contested and disproved on the basis of facts. We often form prejudices or accept them from others--family, friends, the media, etc.--without questioning their meaning or testing their truth. At best, prejudices are careless oversimplifications. At worst, they reflect a narrow-minded view of the world. Most of all, they are not likely to win the confidence or agreement of your readers.

https://writing.colostate.edu/guides/teaching/co300man/pop12d.cfm

This must be about the hundredth time you have preached at us with stuff like this.  It is condescending and tedious in my opinion.