Offensive Line Frustrations

[TDToomer]

Upgrading the QB position is a must. Ideally you'd be in a position to draft an elite QB prospect. We'll see if that's an option.

The year they drafted Eli, they also drafted Chris Snee. This OL is in need of an elite mauler like Snee at the IOL. Having a guy like that opens up the run game and helps make the line look better. That was supposed to be Will Hernandez but he was a miss. They need to go back to the well and find that Chris Snee type. They may have a shot to get their Eli/Snee this year. Time will tell.

One more thing I'll add, Will Hernandez is playing better in Arizona than he did here. Jon Feliciano is playing better in San Francisco than he did here. The Giants need to study this issue and understand why OL players go elsewhere and play better. The easy answer is the OL coach. That may be part of the answer but I suspect there's more to it than that.

And Kevin Zeitler is a top 3 pro bowl voting guard by the fans.

[Jclayton92]

Fix one of the worst O-lines in the NFL and get an elite QB all in one offseason, drafting 7th (give or take a couple of slots) with one extra 2nd rounder and minus a 7th rounder for 7 total draft picks.  The Giants are higher middle of the pack with $35 million cap space (while having McKinney, Jackson, Barkley, Taylor, Robinson, and Simmons as free agents).

I suspect this task is easier said than done.

Your not going to get everything you want in one offseason but a New Oline Coach, then Jayden Daniels with our 1st, and a couple Oline FA, to go with the rest of our draft and FA is a great start.

[MightyGiants]

Many of us suspect that the biggest issue with the offensive line, outside of health, is the line coach. But Johnson and Kafka need to be replaced, at a minimum.

I think it's a given that Bobby Johnson needs to leave at the end of the year.  I guess I am less certain how much of a turnaround the guys the Giants acquired under BJ (Evan Neal, Ezeudu, McKethan, JMS) will thrive with a new coach.

Right now (and appreciating that it's possible a new coach may turn around one or more of the young guys currently on the roster) the team O-line stands at:

LT- Andrew Thomas- elite but injury prone
LG- Likely vacant after the season
C- JMS who is still a work in progress with hopeful upside
RG- Likely vacant after the season
RT- Can't count on Evan Neal to start and play well, will need a plan B (might fill in at one of the guard spots)

That is a lot of resources (draft and cap) that will be needed just to fix that mess (I can't believe it's still a mess after a decade especially with all the draft capital spent).

[MightyGiants]

Your not going to get everything you want in one offseason but a New Oline Coach, then Jayden Daniels with our 1st, and a couple Oline FA, to go with the rest of our draft and FA is a great start.

I think Jayden Daniels (likely top 5) is a long shot, thanks to 5 wins.  It's not like there are teams at the top of this draft that don't need QBs, so you are not going to see much in the way of trade partners.

The teams currently ahead of the Giants (currently sitting at 6th pick) all need QBs.  Obviously, the Bears have 2 of those picks and will only draft one QB, but you have 3 QB needy teams in the Pats, Cards, and Commanders, all picking prior to the Giants, and they need a QB more than they need draft picks.

[T200]

I think it's a given that Bobby Johnson needs to leave at the end of the year.  I guess I am less certain how much of a turnaround the guys the Giants acquired under BJ (Evan Neal, Ezeudu, McKethan, JMS) will thrive with a new coach.

Right now (and appreciating that it's possible a new coach may turn around one or more of the young guys currently on the roster) the team O-line stands at:

LT- Andrew Thomas- elite but injury prone
LG- Likely vacant after the season
C- JMS who is still a work in progress with hopeful upside
RG- Likely vacant after the season
RT- Can't count on Evan Neal to start and play well, will need a plan B (might fill in at one of the guard spots)

That is a lot of resources (draft and cap) that will be needed just to fix that mess (I can't believe it's still a mess after a decade especially with all the draft capital spent).

I'm with you there, Rich. But... no way to know unless they change. I mean, we already know what to expect with him.

[babywhales]

There is an old saying that the best teacher, best communicator on an NFL coaching staff should be/is the Oline coach.

A well coached Olline will not only know what to immediately expect before them but what to expect as the alternatives that may be coming as well. Any hesitation in responsibilities will lead to doom. 

The Giants Oline on a good day doesn't know what is coming at them as they simply not cover straight up rushes yet alone stunts, dogs, or any real blitz. 

Johnson has not properly prepared the Giants Oline 99% of the time.

Lets be honest his units were not good in Buffalo either.


2023 - will be in bottom of league if not worst 
2022 -18th   Giants O line coach
2021 - 17th  Bills o line coach
2020- 10th   Bills o line coach
2019 - 21st    Bills o line coach
2018 - 3rd (expected to middle of the pack)  Colts Ass. Oline Coach to Dave DeGuglielmo


Johnson as a 5 year Oline Coach will average a final season rank of 19th for his unit. When he was hired he averaged 16th.  So the unit that sunk the end of Eli's career, TC's career and the better portion of a decade; Daboll decided to bring in a mediocre at best coach to rejuvenate the Giants O line. 

That is a huge mistake to start his HC career.

[T200]

Looks like Daboll brought the offensive line problem from Buffalo to fix the offensive line problem in NY. Bad move. I hope he has the balls to fix it.

[Jclayton92]

I think Jayden Daniels (likely top 5) is a long shot, thanks to 5 wins.  It's not like there are teams at the top of this draft that don't need QBs, so you are not going to see much in the way of trade partners.

The teams currently ahead of the Giants (currently sitting at 6th pick) all need QBs.  Obviously, the Bears have 2 of those picks and will only draft one QB, but you have 3 QB needy teams in the Pats, Cards, and Commanders, all picking prior to the Giants, and they need a QB more than they need draft picks.

I only see 1 Qb needy team out of those 3.

1st Arizona is not getting rid of Kylar for several seasons, I mean if they cut him this offseason they'd have almost 90 million in dead cap. So they don't need a Qb at least for 2 years.

2nd Sam Howell is going to finish with 4,000 + yards and 20+ Tds, he isn't their problem. They need a LT, TE, and Edge badly and would have their pick of the #1 prospect at each of those positions.

3rd the bears likely take Caleb Williams who is basically Justin Fields 2.0 but their 2nd pick right before us is likely open for business and wouldn't take much to move up 1. They still however could skip QB with both picks and take WR, Corner, OLine, or Edge which they need badly.

So really we are only talking the bears and patriots before us taking Qbs which would have #3 of Maye, Williams, Daniels to fall into our laps.

Last point is if you look at most mock drafts they still don't grade daniels as a high prospect. The highest you really see him going is when we pick but beyond that he's fringe top 10.

[MightyGiants]

I only see 1 Qb needy team out of those 3.

1st Arizona is not getting rid of Kylar for several seasons, I mean if they cut him this offseason they'd have almost 90 million in dead cap. So they don't need a Qb at least for 2 years.

2nd Sam Howell is going to finish with 4,000 + yards and 20+ Tds, he isn't their problem. They need a LT, TE, and Edge badly and would have their pick of the #1 prospect at each of those positions.

3rd the bears likely take Caleb Williams who is basically Justin Fields 2.0 but their 2nd pick right before us is likely open for business and wouldn't take much to move up 1. They still however could skip QB with both picks and take WR, Corner, OLine, or Edge which they need badly.

So really we are only talking the bears and patriots before us taking Qbs which would have #3 of Maye, Williams, Daniels to fall into our laps.

Last point is if you look at most mock drafts they still don't grade daniels as a high prospect. The highest you really see him going is when we pick but beyond that he's fringe top 10.

Sam Howell

24th in QB rating

22nd in QBR

14th in EPA

27th ranked (20% passes) PFF

I don't see the Commanders passing an elite QB prospect.

Kyler Murray is in the same situation as Daniel Jones.  The Cards can't get rid of him in 2024 but they can part ways with him (for a cap savings) in 2025

[files58]

Maybe there were not many good OL coaches available when Daboll was hired.

[Jclayton92]

Sam Howell

24th in QB rating

22nd in QBR

14th in EPA

27th ranked (20% passes) PFF

I don't see the Commanders passing an elite QB prospect.

Kyler Murray is in the same situation as Daniel Jones.  The Cards can't get rid of him in 2024 but they can part ways with him (for a cap savings) in 2025

Sam Howell has more production Than Jones ever had in his 1st season starting so there is still a chance they go a different route.

The cards are winning games or at least competitive with kylar despite the lack of talent around him along with his contract which is 80 million more than Jones, they likely try to build around him before blowing it up.

[MightyGiants]

Sam Howell has more production Than Jones ever had in his 1st season starting so there is still a chance they go a different route.

The cards are winning games or at least competitive with kylar despite the lack of talent around him along with his contract which is 80 million more than Jones, they likely try to build around him before blowing it up.

Jess,

Maybe you're right, and the Cards and Commanders pass on a potential elite QB prospect, but it seems unlikely.  Neither team has ties with their current QBs, and I don't know many football people who wouldn't advocate grabbing a good QB (with elite potential) when their current QB is middle of the pack (and, in the case of the Cards, quite expensive).

Hell, based on your posts after the past few years, if you were GM of either team, you would draft any of the top 3 QBs if they fell to you.  Still, this is all just speculation, there are still 3 games to be played so we don't know how everything will fully shake out.

[Jclayton92]

Jess,

Maybe you're right, and the Cards and Commanders pass on a potential elite QB prospect, but it seems unlikely.  Neither team has ties with their current QBs, and I don't know many football people who wouldn't advocate grabbing a good QB (with elite potential) when their current QB is middle of the pack (and, in the case of the Cards, quite expensive).

Hell, based on your posts after the past few years, if you were GM of either team, you would draft any of the top 3 QBs if they fell to you.  Still, this is all just speculation, there are still 3 games to be played so we don't know how everything will fully shake out.

Qb is the most important position in football, you either have one or you don't, and currently the Cardinals, Patriots, and Commanders have Qbs on their roster that have more passing production in a season than any of our Qbs have had in a season.

So we can only hope they go in a different direction so that our fortunes change.

[Philosophers]

Jess,

Maybe you're right, and the Cards and Commanders pass on a potential elite QB prospect, but it seems unlikely.  Neither team has ties with their current QBs, and I don't know many football people who wouldn't advocate grabbing a good QB (with elite potential) when their current QB is middle of the pack (and, in the case of the Cards, quite expensive).

Hell, based on your posts after the past few years, if you were GM of either team, you would draft any of the top 3 QBs if they fell to you.  Still, this is all just speculation, there are still 3 games to be played so we don't know how everything will fully shake out.

New owner of Redskins knows he will sell tix with a new QB.  He has no ties to Howell plus Rivera likely gets fores so HC will probably want a new QB.

[coggs]

New owner of Redskins knows he will sell tix with a new QB.  He has no ties to Howell plus Rivera likely gets fores so HC will probably want a new QB.

Agreed.  I would think if Washington likes one of these top QB's, they take him if he is on the board.  Even if it means having the rookie and Howell compete for the job in camp. I see Howell as one of those guys that can get you through a season, and be somewhat competitive (hovering around .500).  Not going to drag a team to the play-offs every year or be a serious contender unless they have a ridiculously stacked defense and VERY strong running game.