Execs around the league can't believe Schoen still has a job

[MightyGiants]

I'm not a fan of acquiring another 1st round pick next year with the specific intention of trying to use it to trade up.  Because the teams that are bad enough to pick at the top almost always are looking for a QB themselves.  Which makes sense, if you don't have a QB you're going to be pretty damn bad (not exactly breaking news around these parts).  What happened with the Patriots this year is pretty rare. 

So now you're trying to trade with a team that also needs a QB and those teams won't budge. Giants looked into Washington/New England last year to try and get Maye or Daniels and both those teams told them to piss off.  Rightfully so.  So that means regardless of whether they acquire the 18th pick in the draft along with their own pick there's a better than even chance the teams they try to trade with tell them to piss off again. 

I don't mind them trading back and acquiring more picks this season or next, I just don't think you do it as if you're stock piling stuff to make a big move for a QB next year.  I would prefer they do it because they really like Dart or Milroe and know that a team (Raiders?) might REALLY like Travis Hunter and be willing to pay for him.  So they move back once or maybe even twice they take their QB and still have a bunch of other picks to use to fortify other holes. 

The timeline really suggests they need to get a QB this season get him into the system and get him playing time before guys like Thomas/Lawrence are past their primes or guys like Nabers decide enough of this and get the hell out of town (like Barkley).

2024 the Vikings traded up to draft JJ McCarthy
2023 the Panthers traded up to draft Young
2022 no QB worth trading for
2021 Bears trade up to draft Fields
2020 No trades despite quality rnd one QBs
2019 No trades, not a great QB class
2018 Jets trade up for Darnold, Bills for Josh Allen, the Cards for Rosen, and the Ravens for Lamar Jackson

[Gmo11]

2024 the Vikings traded up to draft JJ McCarthy
2023 the Panthers traded up to draft Young
2022 no QB worth trading for
2021 Bears trade up to draft Fields
2020 No trades despite quality rnd one QBs
2019 No trades, not a great QB class
2018 Jets trade up for Darnold, Bills for Josh Allen, the Cards for Rosen, and the Ravens for Lamar Jackson

That's a bit all over the place don't you think?  I was talking about trading up to the top of the draft so much of that is irrelevant. The ones that are relevant:

Young - (Going from #9 to #1) 2 First rounders, 2 Second rounders, DJ Moore
Darnold - (Going from #6 to #3) 1st rounder, 3 second rounders

Is that a price the Giants are in a position to pay? And that's if there's a team that high willing to part with that pick which again, unlikely since it's only happened twice since 2018. 

If you want them to move up from 12 to 7 for the 4th QB off the board...cool... I'd prefer they not do something like that.  It screams "we know better than everybody else which QB is the best". Very much a Gettleman type of move. 

One thing I wouldn't mind is them using their 2nd round pick this year and some loose change to move back into the end of the 1st round to take Dart or Milroe if they like either of those guys.

[coggs]

That's a bit all over the place don't you think?  I was talking about trading up to the top of the draft so much of that is irrelevant. The ones that are relevant:

Young - (Going from #9 to #1) 2 First rounders, 2 Second rounders, DJ Moore
Darnold - (Going from #6 to #3) 1st rounder, 3 second rounders

Is that a price the Giants are in a position to pay? And that's if there's a team that high willing to part with that pick which again, unlikely since it's only happened twice since 2018. 

If you want them to move up from 12 to 7 for the 4th QB off the board...cool... I'd prefer they not do something like that.  It screams "we know better than everybody else which QB is the best". Very much a Gettleman type of move. 

One thing I wouldn't mind is them using their 2nd round pick this year and some loose change to move back into the end of the 1st round to take Dart or Milroe if they like either of those guys.

I think this is what is more likely to happen.

[MightyGiants]

That's a bit all over the place don't you think?  I was talking about trading up to the top of the draft so much of that is irrelevant. The ones that are relevant:

Young - (Going from #9 to #1) 2 First rounders, 2 Second rounders, DJ Moore
Darnold - (Going from #6 to #3) 1st rounder, 3 second rounders

Is that a price the Giants are in a position to pay? And that's if there's a team that high willing to part with that pick which again, unlikely since it's only happened twice since 2018. 

If you want them to move up from 12 to 7 for the 4th QB off the board...cool... I'd prefer they not do something like that.  It screams "we know better than everybody else which QB is the best". Very much a Gettleman type of move. 

One thing I wouldn't mind is them using their 2nd round pick this year and some loose change to move back into the end of the 1st round to take Dart or Milroe if they like either of those guys.

I would agree that it's more likely the Giants draft a QB in 2025.  I can't see Schoen and Daboll keeping their jobs riding with a bridge QB in 2025.   As I said, if you plan on a QB in 2026 you either need to know your team will be really bad or you acquire more draft capital as ammo to help the team acquire their QB.

I wouldn't worry about drafting QB 4.  Ask the Broncos how number 5 worked out for them.  The Bills took the 3rd QB and the Ravens the 5th QB and are pretty happy.  In fact, there doesn't seem to be any correlation (if there is it's pretty weak) between the order QBs are draft in round one and how they perform

[Gmo11]

I would agree that it's more likely the Giants draft a QB in 2025.  I can't see Schoen and Daboll keeping their jobs riding with a bridge QB in 2025.   As I said, if you plan on a QB in 2026 you either need to know your team will be really bad or you acquire more draft capital as ammo to help the team acquire their QB.

I wouldn't worry about drafting QB 4.  Ask the Broncos how number 5 worked out for them.  The Bills took the 3rd QB and the Ravens the 5th QB and are pretty happy.  In fact, there doesn't seem to be any correlation (if there is it's pretty weak) between the order QBs are draft in round one and how they perform

Yea it worked out well for those teams in those years...but I don't think it's very controversial to say that if you're hell bent on taking a QB you'd like to have your pick of QB rather than hoping the guy you like manages to be the 4th or 5th QB taken in a given draft. 

To that point...If the Broncos had the #2 pick in the draft last year do they take Nix?  Likely not. So Nix turned in a solid rookie season but if they had their choice of QB they probably get Daniels or Williams and turn in an even better one. 

Same with the Bills and Allen.  The Ravens may well have had Lamar as one of their top QBs however.  A lot of teams were weirded out by out of touch analysts/scouts thinking somebody as freakishly athletic as Lamar could play QB.  As though that was some kind of hindrance.  But I don't even know if the Ravens take a QB at all if Lamar is picked in the top 10 where he should have gone.  It was almost a too good to pass up scenario.

So unless the Giants plan to go full tank mode in 2025 and make SURE they win 3 or fewer games, they almost have to get a QB now. As you said, lame duck GM/Coach need one to survive but also, there's no guarantee they will even be in a position to get one next year at all.

[B1GBLUE]

Baalke has been terrible forever.  Schoen at least is getting better and with a real QB this team when healthy wasnt that bad. I think people are going to be shocked how much better they look when the QB can actually find the wide open WR and then throw him the football too!

Getting better? how? his tenure has gone good, worse, worst.

[Gmo11]

Getting better? how? his tenure has gone good, worse, worst.

Because the roster has gotten much better and the QB has gotten much worse.  What you described was Jones' career the past 3 years.  But with league average QB play this team could have won 4 or 5 more games while they were healthy.

[MightyGiants]

Because the roster has gotten much better and the QB has gotten much worse.  What you described was Jones' career the past 3 years.  But with league average QB play this team could have won 4 or 5 more games while they were healthy.

You could be right, but it's worth noting that not even John Mara was willing to say today's roster was better than the one Schoen inherited

[Gmo11]

You could be right, but it's worth noting that not even John Mara was willing to say today's roster was better than the one Schoen inherited

When it comes to football knowledge and how to build a team, I'm not going to John Mara for his opinion.  That man has shown himself to be very limited in that department.  He's pretty good at being a fan though so he should stick to that and writing checks.

[T200]

You could be right, but it's worth noting that not even John Mara was willing to say today's roster was better than the one Schoen inherited

I'd give more credence to you making that statement than Mara.

[MightyGiants]

When it comes to football knowledge and how to build a team, I'm not going to John Mara for his opinion.  That man has shown himself to be very limited in that department.  He's pretty good at being a fan though so he should stick to that and writing checks.

I have wondered if it is a question of John's football acumen.  The man literally grew up in football and has been exposed to some of NYG's best and brightest (Parcels, Belichick, Young, EA, and Coughlin).  On top of being an owner, he spent 15 years on the competition committee (that does deep dives into the game) and is currently chair of the executive council.

So, if John knows football, what has caused him to mismanage the team so badly?  It seems likely that reports that he is too loyal (leading to a culture of no accountability) have been the biggest issue.  That and knowing football doesn't mean you are good at interviewing and hiring the right people to run your team. 

[MightyGiants]

I'd give more credence to you making that statement than Mara.

Tim, the results are somewhat mixed.  There seemed to be more stars on the team Schoen inherited, but there were some units that have improved under Schoen.  I have compared the two rosters and found it difficult to declare one roster better than the other definitively.

[T200]

Tim, the results are somewhat mixed.  There seemed to be more stars on the team Schoen inherited, but there were some units that have improved under Schoen.  I have compared the two rosters and found it difficult to declare one roster better than the other definitively.

My point is that Mara doesn't know football. He's not qualified to comment on an NFL roster. Who cares what he thinks about the roster?