Two interesting things I learned listening to podcasts this morning

[PSUBeirut]

In those last frantic hours before the franchise tag deadline, it seems obvious they went the wrong way with it.  Shoulda tagged Jones and signed Saquon to the multi-year deal.  That's what I was pushing for but ob la di, ob la da.  In the heat of those frantic negotiations, our GM swung and missed.  Never a great sign when the GM makes a bad call when the heat is turned up the highest.

[katkavage]

It's a bizarre situation that feeds on itself.

One could argue that Daboll is doing his best with the assembled talent.

One could also argue that Schoen gave Daboll enough talent that the record should be better.

In my opinion, both are true and the proof is in the dismal records the past two seasons. If Schoen gave Daboll more talent, maybe they would have won five or six games this year, his coaching alone lost them plenty. If Daboll was a better coach and had the lousy talent given to him by Schoen, maybe also they would have overachieved and won six or seven games as good coaches can sometimes do with marginal talent. Because they both were historically bad, it's pretty amazing they are getting another shot.

[MightyGiants]

In those last frantic hours before the franchise tag deadline, it seems obvious they went the wrong way with it.  Shoulda tagged Jones and signed Saquon to the multi-year deal.  That's what I was pushing for but ob la di, ob la da.  In the heat of those frantic negotiations, our GM swung and missed.  Never a great sign when the GM makes a bad call when the heat is turned up the highest.

You may well be correct.  I will say that the deck is stacked against Giants' GMs, as long as Ronnie Barnes is with the team.  I didn't have a problem letting Barkley go because he had proven injury prone and in his last season with NYG, he appeared to have lost a step.  He goes to the Eagles and their first-rate program, and he is healthy, and even though he is an older running back (by NFL standards), he got faster.

[Gmo11]

If you objectively examine the available evidence, there isn't much to support the idea that Mara loved or was very fond of Daniel Jones.  Did Mara say good things about Jones?   Yes, but what owner isn't going to be publicly supportive of his starting QB?

The only player we know Mara was very fond of was Barkley because he said as much on Hard Knocks.   Despite that effect, Mara allowed Schoen to part ways with him (even knowing it would likely help a rival).

I will say this: I think the Giants winning a playoff game in 2022, combined with a decade of futility, made it a tough sell for all involved to let him walk without a viable replacement.

Part of my support of Daniel Jones was based on Daboll's reputation as a QB guru, and if he endorsed Jones enough for the team to ride with him, then Jones must have shown him enough that he believed he could be a franchise QB.   If Daboll didn't believe Jones was a franchise QB and all he could do was coach like hell to hide his limitation, who on earth thought it was a good idea to sign him even to the two-year contract? 

What owner says "we did everything we could to screw him up" about a player he doesn't much like?

Not to mention if you look at the evidence of Schoen/Daboll not even bothering to pick up that 5th year it seems pretty clear they didn't want him around.  So who did?

[MightyGiants]

What owner says "we did everything we could to screw him up" about a player he doesn't much like?

Not to mention if you look at the evidence of Schoen/Daboll not even bothering to pick up that 5th year it seems pretty clear they didn't want him around.  So who did?

When Mara made that comment, there was rare universal agreement among former NFL commentators and pundits alike.  So, what can you really glean from a comment that falls under the "Captain Obvious" banner?

[EDjohnst1981]

In benefit of hindsight, the best thing the team could have done was extend DJ's 5th-year option, giving the team two years to evaluate him rather than one.

It was suggested at the time the team would have been better served letting DJ hit the open market, and the team would match the best offer.  While that sounded like a good plan, from DJ's camp, that would have been seen as a slight, and this plan requires some goodwill by the player to come back and let the Giants match an offer.

To the point you made, half-measures seem to be the Giants' Achilles heel.  Either Schoen had enough faith to sign DJ to a proper 3 or 4 year veteran contract, or he tagged him and dealt with the contract after another year of data (if they weren't sure about DJ). In hindsight, the half-measure contract, with a 2 year out, was less than ideal.  The Giants are dealing with $22 million in dead cap. They had to deal with benching him due to the injury clause, and I heard reports DJ was not happy that the team signed him to what was effectively only a two-year deal.

This team needs to move with more conviction.  Be it Mara properly endorsing the men he decided to keep or the Schoen either tagging DJ or going all in; these half measures are making things more difficult

I disagree to an extent, with the benefit of hindsight - the best thing to do would have been to let Jones walk after the Divisional Round and start the re-build properly. They picked up Dexter's option almost immediately, they clearly weren't sold on Jones and told him to play out his deal. A year later there were protracted negotiations where Jones was initially seeking more than 45million a year (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/report-daniel-jones-wants-more-than-45-million-per-year), I don't think there would have been any good will and let the Giants match (and neither should their be, Jones owed the Giants nothing). Perhaps picking up the option would have been better, perhaps not.

I believed at the time that letting him walk would have been the best thing, and in hindsight, I still think that was the case.  Of course, rather than the deal, they could have franchised him - which would mean losing Barkley immediately and would need a raft of other cap gymnastics to deal with the $37mil hit, which to be honest, might be unrealistic.

I don't want to get into who's responsible - Mara, Schoen or both - in my opinion they both have their mitts over it. But Dab's (in my view) is the least culpable of the three of them. His voice is of course important, but he doesn't sign off on deals - he can make suggestions.

[MightyGiants]

I disagree to an extent, with the benefit of hindsight - the best thing to do would have been to let Jones walk after the Divisional Round and start the re-build properly. They picked up Dexter's option almost immediately, they clearly weren't sold on Jones and told him to play out his deal. A year later there were protracted negotiations where Jones was initially seeking more than 45million a year (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/report-daniel-jones-wants-more-than-45-million-per-year), I don't think there would have been any good will and let the Giants match (and neither should their be, Jones owed the Giants nothing). Perhaps picking up the option would have been better, perhaps not.

I believed at the time that letting him walk would have been the best thing, and in hindsight, I still think that was the case.  Of course, rather than the deal, they could have franchised him - which would mean losing Barkley immediately and would need a raft of other cap gymnastics to deal with the $37mil hit, which to be honest, might be unrealistic.

I don't want to get into who's responsible - Mara, Schoen or both - in my opinion they both have their mitts over it. But Dab's (in my view) is the least culpable of the three of them. His voice is of course important, but he doesn't sign off on deals - he can make suggestions.

Ed,

To the point about Daboll endorsing signing Daniel Jones to the contract, one of the justifications for keeping Schoen and Daboll for another season (according to Mara) is how well they work together.  If a GM and Head Coach are working well together, I can't see a possible scenario where the GM would sign the most important single player on the team to a veteran contract unless the head coach was completely on board.  Heck, even if they weren't working closely together, I can't see how a GM would try and force a QB on his head coach, at least a GM that was remotely competent.

[EDjohnst1981]

Ed,

To the point about Daboll endorsing signing Daniel Jones to the contract, one of the justifications for keeping Schoen and Daboll for another season (according to Mara) is how well they work together.  If a GM and Head Coach are working well together, I can't see a possible scenario where the GM would sign the most important single player on the team to a veteran contract unless the head coach was completely on board.  Heck, even if they weren't working closely together, I can't see how a GM would try and force a QB on his head coach, at least a GM that was remotely competent.

Yup, I get it.

I just don't see a first time HC pushing back with any real conviction to his boss, when he was thought of as a 'QB guru'.

But this is all water under the bridge now. And we are paying the price.

[Painter]

While finger-pointing and blaming may be the only thing which interests us currently, it is at best little more than a self-serving, valueless exercise at this point in 2025. Moreover, it's not like we are any good at it nor that it matters in the least re decisions made and to be made.

So, let's stow the self-indulgence until at least the start of the League Year on 3/12 when FA and Trades should get our sphincters twitching well before they go full spas mode on April 24-26.

Cheers!

[B1GBLUE]

It's a bizarre situation that feeds on itself.

One could argue that Daboll is doing his best with the assembled talent.

One could also argue that Schoen gave Daboll enough talent that the record should be better.

even when healthy early in the year, and the oline playing around average, we still sucked. that should pretty much tell you everything you need to know. it's been a long time of even a remotely functional offense. and getting worse every year. talent is talent sure, but you watch EVERY other team around the league, and its at least somewhat functional most of the time, even the really bad teams. did we have a single dominant game this year? i would say no. it's probably a 50/50 thing, but we should have played at least SLIGHTLY better than we did.