What Mike Lombardi is hearing and seeing with QB prospects

[jgrangers2]

Gentlemen,

In regards to the rationale for DJ's poor performance as a passer, please consider he was criticized for lack of processing speed in college, well before he was saddled with the Giants' terrible OLs, or suffered any injuries.  In fact, his lack of processing speed  is what led Todd McShay to conclude DJ was a 'bad pick, who's skillsets were more suited to a backup vice NFL starter.  If you go back and listen to McShay, his assessment was eerily accurate.  All the signs were and continue to be present.  Again, DJ was never an above-average passer, at any level.  He wasn't a highly, or even moderately recruited HS player; also, he only amassed a few 300+ yard passing games in college, despite playing in a high-scoring conference. The reasons are obvious; despite being a good athlete, his mental/cogitative shortcomings limit his ceiling as a passer.  If you consider the latter, how many times do we see DJ make an anticipatory throw through tight windows?  More often than not, he's throwing simple crossing, post or nine routes.  There's also virtually no improv ability; if a play breaks down, so does DJ, with the exception of the occasional long run. As a passer, he simply never had 'it.'

I'm also mystified why some fans are signing up for 17 more games to see if he can become something he never was; it's more perplexing when you compare DJ's trajectory to every QB who's played over the past 30 years.  In short, no QB made the transition from average to SB winning QB after 60+ games played.  At this point, DJ is who he is, and I think the Giants understand their current paradigm... 

This is what gets me. The biggest knock on Jones was always his ability to process quickly. This isn't something where he was suddenly sped up by a bad O-line. It hasn't helped but this was always a major question with Jones and why very few people thought taking him with a top 10 pick was a bad idea. It's really why so many people had him as a day 2 pick.

[MightyGiants]

I am puzzled by how many people buy into the claim that Daniel Jones is a slow processor.   Do you honestly believe that Daboll (for all his faults, he appears to be a pretty good OC) couldn't figure out how quickly Jones could process?   Does anyone here believe that outsiders or fans are better at judging DJ's processing speed than the coaches in the building?


Now, if the fan's claims about how slow DJ processes were true and the coaches (the people in the best position to judge) told Schoen that Daniel Jones would never be better than a backup QB (ignore the whole winning season and winning an away playoff game against a double-digit win team) that he would have signed Jones to the contract he signed him to???

Also, while McShay said Jones "was slow to process at times,"   Other draft outsiders like Lance Zierline (who does the reports for NFL.com and Walter Football both said Jones was a quick processor.

[Bob In PA]

I am puzzled by how many people buy into the claim that Daniel Jones is a slow processor.  Do you honestly believe that Daboll (for all his faults, he appears to be a pretty good OC) couldn't figure out how quickly Jones could process?  Does anyone here believe that outsiders or fans are better at judging DJ's processing speed than the coaches in the building?

Rich: I sense (but cannot prove) that most of the folks here who are seriously down on Jones DO BELIEVE that the only reason he's still on the team is due to the owners (probably Mara) insisting upon it. If true, that would negate your reasoning (above) which I find persuasive and logical. Bob

[kingm56]

Rich: I sense (but cannot prove) that most of the folks here who are seriously down on Jones DO BELIEVE that the only reason he's still on the team is due to the owners (probably Mara) insisting upon it. If true, that would negate your reasoning (above) which I find persuasive and logical. Bob

Bob,

I don't prescribe to the notion that Mara is solely responsible for DJ remaining on the roster; although, I certainly believe he played a role.  Fundamentally, I believe he's still on a team as result of circumstance.  If a decent QB prospect was available in 2022, the Giants would have drafted him with one of their two top 7 picks.  Unfortunately, it was the worse draft for QB prospects in two decades. Last year, there were no alternatives and it would have been a marketing nightmare to allow DJ to walk, following a Playoff victory. What I do know is 60+ GS is more than enough time to predict DJ's trajectory. 

[MightyGiants]

Rich: I sense (but cannot prove) that most of the folks here who are seriously down on Jones DO BELIEVE that the only reason he's still on the team is due to the owners (probably Mara) insisting upon it. If true, that would negate your reasoning (above) which I find persuasive and logical. Bob

I am glad you used the word "believe," as that means a position held without supporting facts.

Look, I will admit with this terrible losing streak, I have been down on Mara.  I believe Mike Lombardi's assertion that Mara is too loyal (Ronnie Barnes being exhibit one).

Still, the man grew up around professional football.  Great football minds like Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, George Young, Ernie Accorsi, and Tom Coughlin no doubt helped to shape his beliefs about football.

The idea that Daboll and Schoen came to John Mara and told him, "We need to move on from Daniel Jones because he simply can't process quick enough,"  and this was met by Mara saying, "Daniel Jones reminds me of Eli Manning, so I don't care if he can't be successful I want you to pay what it takes to keep him on the team!" 

This exchange strikes me as highly unlikely and, frankly, even silly.

[Bob In PA]

Bob,

I don't prescribe to the notion that Mara is solely responsible for DJ remaining on the roster; although, I certainly believe he played a role.  Fundamentally, I believe he's still on a team as result of circumstance.  If a decent QB prospect was available in 2022, the Giants would have drafted him with one of their two top 7 picks.  Unfortunately, it was the worse draft for QB prospects in two decades. Last year, there were no alternatives and it would have been a marketing nightmare to allow DJ to walk, following a Playoff victory. What I do know is 60+ GS is more than enough time to predict DJ's trajectory. 

king: My mantra about the draft continues to be that the Giants are one of the unluckiest of NFL teams, and have been so since IMO the late 1960's. Their best "luck" has been 2004 (the Eli situation) and the year Lawrence Taylor "fell" to Pick Two. lol  Bob

[MightyGiants]

Bob,

I don't prescribe to the notion that Mara is solely responsible for DJ remaining on the roster; although, I certainly believe he played a role.  Fundamentally, I believe he's still on a team as result of circumstance.  If a decent QB prospect was available in 2022, the Giants would have drafted him with one of their two top 7 picks.  Unfortunately, it was the worse draft for QB prospects in two decades. Last year, there were no alternatives and it would have been a marketing nightmare to allow DJ to walk, following a Playoff victory. What I do know is 60+ GS is more than enough time to predict DJ's trajectory. 

What about that prospect from Iowa State, Brock what's-his-name?  I hear he has played pretty well since becoming an NFL QB.

[kingm56]

What about that prospect from Iowa State, Brock what's-his-name?  I hear he has played pretty well since becoming an NFL QB.

You're right, Rich; he was such an amazing prospect he lasted to the very last pick.  I don't fault the Giants for not using a top 7 pick on him. 

[jgrangers2]

Now, if the fan's claims about how slow DJ processes were true and the coaches (the people in the best position to judge) told Schoen that Daniel Jones would never be better than a backup QB (ignore the whole winning season and winning an away playoff game against a double-digit win team) that he would have signed Jones to the contract he signed him to???

The Giants ended up in no man's land regarding their QB after 2022. Winning 9 games and, ultimately, a playoff game, left them missing out on the top QBs in the draft so the only options were either re-sign Jones or bring in a stopgap. That said, this is a team that is keenly aware of perception and I do think that bringing Jones back was at least partially because they didn't want the whole "how could you move off a guy who just won you a playoff game" concept. The other part of it was basically "well, what else are we going to do?" All that said, the contract was essentially designed to give the Giants an opt out after year 2 if it didn't work out with Jones. Basically, if 2023 went as it did the Giants would be in a position to start planning to move on from Jones with his contract being a one year albatross. Bringing him back didn't mean they loved him, it meant they didn't have many options.

Ultimately, though, people need to stop pretending that 2022 season was more than it was. The Giants ran a low risk offense where Jones' main purpose was to not be the reason we lost. While they won a playoff game against a 13 win team that Vikings defense was awful. Jones was fine but hardly a needle mover in terms of overall success.

[expatriot]

All I know is that when I watch Jones I frequently ask  what was he looking at or what was he thinking?  The key work there is frequently ...since everyone one makes mistakes but he is more consistent with it.  He makes me yell at my TV set more than anyone.

[DaveBrown74]

Gentlemen,

In regards to the rationale for DJ's poor performance as a passer, please consider he was criticized for lack of processing speed in college, well before he was saddled with the Giants' terrible OLs, or suffered any injuries.  In fact, his lack of processing speed  is what led Todd McShay to conclude DJ was a 'bad pick, who's skillsets were more suited to a backup vice NFL starter.  If you go back and listen to McShay, his assessment was eerily accurate.  All the signs were and continue to be present.  Again, DJ was never an above-average passer, at any level.  He wasn't a highly, or even moderately recruited HS player; also, he only amassed a few 300+ yard passing games in college, despite playing in a high-scoring conference. The reasons are obvious; despite being a good athlete, his mental/cogitative shortcomings limit his ceiling as a passer.  If you consider the latter, how many times do we see DJ make an anticipatory throw through tight windows?  More often than not, he's throwing simple crossing, post or nine routes.  There's also virtually no improv ability; if a play breaks down, so does DJ, with the exception of the occasional long run. As a passer, he simply never had 'it.'

I'm also mystified why some fans are signing up for 17 more games to see if he can become something he never was; it's more perplexing when you compare DJ's trajectory to every QB who's played over the past 30 years.  In short, no QB made the transition from average to SB winning QB after 60+ games played.  At this point, DJ is who he is, and I think the Giants understand their current paradigm... 

Excellent post. Very well summed up, and hard to argue against with a straight face.