Dan Duggan on Sam Darnold

[Hadron]

How the tables turn!

I'm impressed that Kevin O'Connell gets so much out of these guys. Darnold this year, Cousins in the past. When Cousins went down? The backup QBs weren't awful.

[MightyGiants]

The support DJ had against the Colts and Vikings vanished when they played the Eagles the following week?

It's a mixed bag, according to PFF.  DJ had good pass blocking in the Colts game but poor blocking in the Vikings game, but okay (not as good as the Colts, but solid) in the Eagles game.  Receiving, on the other hand, was good in the Colts and Vikings game but worse in the Eagles game.

I will say this: I have been doing some studying on PFF grades and QB success.  I have seen a stronger correlation between receiving and the QB playing well than I have pass protection.  In fact, when I started to look at QBs who are not considered elite, but they played well, I saw receiving, more so than protection, has been the attribute that boosts them.

I think that makes sense; if a QB is throwing quality receivers with good catch radius, gets open quickly and consistently, and has low drop rates, they will have more of an advantage than a protect that gives the QB maybe an extra couple of downs enough time to throw or perhaps a couple of downs with extra time.  I am beginning to see some of Daniel Jeremiah's points about elite O-line not being as important as no weak links.  Perhaps protect, for the most part, is a binary is the QB being protected or is he not?  While receiving (WRs, TEs, and RBs) can create more opportunities for the QB or bail them out on poor throws more.

[MightyGiants]

How the tables turn!

Im impressed that Kevin O'Connell gets so much out of these guys. Darnold this year, Cousins in the past. When Cousins went down? The backup QBs weren't awful.

The Vikings have an outstanding QB support system.  They have an excellent QB coaching and scheme.  They have a pretty good O-line and some of the best receivers in the league.   I suspect the issue with Darnold is that he never really handled pressure well with the Jets, which continues to be an issue with him. 

[kingm56]

How the tables turn!

I'm impressed that Kevin O'Connell gets so much out of these guys. Darnold this year, Cousins in the past. When Cousins went down? The backup QBs weren't awful.

Huh?  Cousins output in Wash was virtually identical to Minn; he was also a Pro Bowler under O'Connell's predecessor in Minn.  Last year, you witnessed a pretty steep decline under O'Connell, which continued this year.  It appears father-time has tackled Cousins.

[T200]

It's a mixed bag, according to PFF.  DJ had good pass blocking in the Colts game but poor blocking in the Vikings game, but okay (not as good as the Colts, but solid) in the Eagles game.  Receiving, on the other hand, was good in the Colts and Vikings game but worse in the Eagles game.

I will say this: I have been doing some studying on PFF grades and QB success.  I have seen a stronger correlation between receiving and the QB playing well than I have pass protection.  In fact, when I started to look at QBs who are not considered elite, but they played well, I saw receiving, more so than protection, has been the attribute that boosts them.

I think that makes sense; if a QB is throwing quality receivers with good catch radius, gets open quickly and consistently, and has low drop rates, they will have more of an advantage than a protect that gives the QB maybe an extra couple of downs enough time to throw or perhaps a couple of downs with extra time.  I am beginning to see some of Daniel Jeremiah's points about elite O-line not being as important as no weak links.  Perhaps protect, for the most part, is a binary is the QB being protected or is he not?  While receiving (WRs, TEs, and RBs) can create more opportunities for the QB or bail them out on poor throws more.

I know you have a soft spot for PFF but I like watching the games and looking beyond the numbers.

[MightyGiants]

Huh?  Cousins output in Wash was virtually identical to Minn; he was also a Pro Bowler under O'Connell's predecessor in Minn.  Last year, you witnessed a pretty steep decline under O'Connell, which continued this year.  I appears father-time has tackled Cousins.

Yup, anywhere from the mid-30s to around 40 (with a few rare outliers playing well in their 40s).

Once the arm starts to go, the QB will hold on to the ball longer because they don't trust they can throw to the same small windows (per Phil Simms) and that holding on to the ball longer generates more pressure and less success.

[MightyGiants]

I know you have a soft spot for PFF but I like watching the games and looking beyond the numbers.

Funny, you could have said, "I know you have a passion for analytics, but I don't share that passion"

You could have even mentioned that I have repeatedly stated when it comes to QBs I prefer a three-pronged approach of QB Rating, QBR, and PFF grade).  Hell, I have even dabbled in measures like EPA per throw and other metrics, some of my own inventions.

There is nothing wrong with just watching the games and going by what you see, I do so as well.  In the end, I think a combination of scouting and analytics produces the most accurate results.

Still, it's nice to see my nuanced and carefully considered views summed up as "I know you have a soft spot for PFF"

[T200]

Funny, you could have said, "I know you have a passion for analytics, but I don't share that passion"

You could have even mentioned that I have repeatedly stated when it comes to QBs I prefer a three-pronged approach of QB Rating, QBR, and PFF grade).  Hell, I have even dabbled in measures like EPA per throw and other metrics, some of my own inventions.

There is nothing wrong with just watching the games and going by what you see, I do so as well.  In the end, I think a combination of scouting and analytics produces the most accurate results.

Still, it's nice to see my nuanced and carefully considered views summed up as "I know you have a soft spot for PFF"

You could also not take it as a dig. It certainly wasn't meant to be. 

[kartanoman]

I am not sure you can compare the two seasons.  DJ came up big when he needed to defeat the Colts to ensure the team made the playoffs and came up big in an away game against the Vikings.  Plus, DJ accomplished what he did with below-average support.  That seems to be quite different than what Darnold did.  Darnold put up flashy stats while enjoying some of the best QB support in the league and then crashed and burned when things mattered.

It's funny how so many people complained about all the DJ talk, and now that he isn't on the team, there are still more posts about him than any Giants-related topic.

It's old. Can we move on, please?

Peace.

[sxdxca38]

Since I have NFL premium plus, I was able to rewatch the Vikings vs Rams game.

Here are my thoughts on Darnold.

He was good in the 1st quarter; I think he completed his first 7 passes.

However, quarters two through four, the Rams began to get pressure on him, and he became unrattled as they got inside his head.

He held on to the ball too long a few times and had some inerrant throws and also an interception.

Because of the Giants offensive line being so bad, I do not recommend signing Darnold in the offseason as I think the pressure playing in NY combined with a bad O line is going to expose him. I don't think he will put up the same numbers here as he did in Minnesota, in fact it could be a hard fail.

Secondly, if the Vikings franchise him, then that would be the best for both sides. He'd get a chance to repeat his solid performance in 2025 and then try to sign with a team that has a good O line to protect him.

Unfortunately, that is not with the Giants, and I agree with the other posters who have recommended they either draft a QB this year, or sign a cheap bridge gap QB now, and draft their next QB in 2026.

Even though I like Darnold I don't think signing him to the Giants is a good move.

However, that is just my opinion.