Jon Gruden exposes Cam Newton's real weakness

[Sect122Mike]

When I see one of these QB coming from a gimmick offense really transition from that to the pro game successfully I think it'll be my first one.

There was this guy named Joe Montana who played ball at the little school called Notre Dame which ran the Triple Option through his tenure at QB.  At the time, it was considered a gimmick offense and is probably why he dropped.

Then in 2004, this kid named Aaron Rodgers fell like a stone.  At first he was the consensus no. 1 pick.  He was not a run-option QB, but he ran a spread style, single back attack under Jeff Tedford at Cal.  Tedford remember is the guy who gave the NFL gimmick QBs like Akili Smith and Joey Harrington, so I understand the reluctance to embrace Rodgers.  

Both Rodgers and Montana did okay.  One is one of the best today, the other is one of the best of all time.  Gimmick's eventually become part of the norm.  

Orton at Purdue ran the spread option and the read option.  I don't know if he ever took a direct snap under center in college.  While not in Montana or Rodger's class, he has had a decent career.  

Drew Brees and Philip Rivers were in shotgun/spread offenses for most of their passes in college.  Rivers was a classic spread QB. All the traditional questions abotu arm strength and his quick side arm style release proved inaccurate as he has done fairly well in the NFL.  Brees was also at Purdue was an option read QB who took all his snaps from the shotgun and worked a spread style attack like Orton.  

There are more that a few.  I suspect as the pistol and option read grow, which they are doing based on spring practice reports, you will get another one of these guys in the NFL.  Dixon on the Steelers looked good before his injury in replacing Big Ben at the start of last season.  He was a total option read/pistol QB.  

[Philosophers]

It's all about what's in between his ears.  If that works at an NFL level, the rest will follow.

[vette5573]

Plenty of talent, don't know the wonderic score, don't know how hard he will work or I'd he'll be a student of the game. Is he worthy of a top three pick?

[Sect122Mike]

Plenty of talent, don't know the wonderic score, don't know how hard he will work or I'd he'll be a student of the game. Is he worthy of a top three pick?

I think Phil and you have hit it.  I'm not sure if he has the head.  I do think he has the physical tools to carry the offense, but I have no idea if he can withstand the pressure, put in the work needed to stay on top of the fast paced defenses and make the mental checks as quickly as needed.  I still think he is too great a talent not to perform though, but I suspect it will be a Slash type of play, using his running more than his arm. 

[Philosophers]

Mike - it seems like the NFL talent evaluators have done a good job of finding out the physical talents of players, but the two areas in which they seem to fail miserably, especially for QB talent is in determining a) how smart they are with respect to understanding the complexities of the game and b) whether or not handing over $25 - $50 million in guaranteed money will change the player and make him stop working hard and constantly to improve himself.

It always seems like they fall in love with the physicals, then the QB fails in the NFL and they say, "oh, he had a terrible work ethic" or "he wasn't very smart."  When are they going to realize that this is what makes a QB, not the arm.  Chad Pennington has the arm of a 5 year old, yet he has succeeded in the NFL because he's smart and works hard.  If he had 50% of the physicals of Cam Newton, he'd likely have been a top 10 QB.

[vette5573]

Good point Phil. Just because the player looks great in shorts and has a rocket for an arm and can make all the throws, doesn't anoint the player the next Star QB to come. It's great to have the tools, but then there is a complete education that has to take place and the work has to be put in. Then the player has to be able to get it.

[MightyGiants]

Here are what some NFL people have to say:

"They're talented, no one questions their ability. (But) the learning curve coming into our league can't be downplayed," said Mike Holmgren, the former quarterback coaching guru of Brett Favre who now heads the Cleveland Browns' front office.

"They have to learn how to play from under center," Broncos coach John Fox said at the NFL scouting combine. "It doesn't sound like a big deal, but it's a big deal."
"Suddenly," Holmgren said, pantomiming the distance between a snap from center and the interviewer, "I'm this far away from somebody trying to kill me. Now try running backwards from there while someone is coming after you, trying to kill you."

"It affects all the mechanics," Fox said. "There's mechanics in getting away from under center, the footwork, the timing, the depth. In the shotgun, all that stuff is done."


"When you're watching," Elway said, "and all the sudden you see 11 guys look at the sidelines because they're calling the audibles from the sidelines? Anytime you see that, you know it's going to be an adjustment going to the NFL because the coach is not going to be able to call the audibles from the sidelines."

Read more: Spread-offense QBs: great in college, not so much in NFL - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_17506785#ixzz1JyR3Am2V
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

[PSUBeirut]

Personally, I don't think he even has the physical talents.  I see an athletic runner.  I don't see a gifted passer.  He's very much like Vince Young, who I've never been impressed with either.

[MightyGiants]

Plenty of talent, don't know the wonderic score, don't know how hard he will work or I'd he'll be a student of the game. Is he worthy of a top three pick?

I heard a wonderlic score of either 20 or 21 which is higher than the average player but below average for a QB.

[vette5573]

Personally, I don't think he even has the physical talents.  I see an athletic runner.  I don't see a gifted passer.  He's very much like Vince Young, who I've never been impressed with either.

From what I've read, he has a very strong arm and can easily make all the throws. He can take the snap from center and sells the play action well, but he tends to role out of the pocket to easily. It's his mechanics that he needs to work on in short throws. He's a big player at 6'6" and 250. He has no trouble seeing the field. This guy has all the physical ability.

[Sect122Mike]

I think every front office person has their own opinions on what makes a good QB. But most are wrong far more often than they are right.  The so called reduced "learning curve" for pocket passers taking snaps under center at college did not help Todd Blackledge, JP Losman, Alex Smith, Rick Mirer, Dave Klinger, Todd Marinovich, Heath Shuler or Jim Druckenmiller.  Hell they have had just as bad success with the guys with the big learning curve like Cade McNown, Andrew Ware, Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, Matt Lienart and Tim Couch.  I think its unfair to target any college system with the failures of Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell, but I think those two are the real rule to consider.  Its the individual and not the system.  Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell both ran incredibly successful modified pro-style offenses, yet both were head cases.  One was nuts and mean, the other nuts and lazy. Its really the person that matters. 

Most of the guys that get to the NFL draft combine have the skill set to toss it in the NFL and see the field, but not all have the brainpan to do it. 

As for anyone saying that its hard to learn how to play under center, I'd say to look at Brees, Rodgers and Rivers.  Its not that hard, if the player has the ability, the head and the work ethic.  Guys who have it, have it, guys that don't, don't.  Sure, consider if he can learn the mechanics, but if he can't learn the mechanics, I suspect there are far more problems, like his arm strength, his size and his ability to run any offense.   

I have lots of fears about Cam Newton, but a fear that he will not be able to take a snap under center and drop back a few steps is not one of them. 

[PSUBeirut]

I just don't see it with this guy.  I don't see him progressing through reads, I don't see him throwing with touch.  I see a big guy who can throw the ball a mile but maybe not 5 yards over a DL's hands, with timing and accuracy.  I don't see a guy that can throw a slant pass with timing. 

I have been very wrong before and I definitely could be again with Cam, but if I were a GM I'd be very very nervous to take him near the top of the draft.  If Carolina goes for it, that would be one interesting situation where you'd have Clausen and Newton, pretty much polar opposites skillset wise.  I live in NC, so I'd kind've like to see how it plays out up close if it happens!

[NYSPORTS]

I have been very wrong before and I definitely could be again with Cam, but if I were a GM I'd be very very nervous to take him near the top of the draft.  If Carolina goes for it, that would be one interesting situation where you'd have Clausen and Newton, pretty much polar opposites skillset wise.  I live in NC, so I'd kind've like to see how it plays out up close if it happens!

The moment Newton claimed "I see myself not only as a football player, but an entertainer and icon.'' I would have crossed him off my list.  The way he speaks in the third person and flatters himself tells me he's the perfect replacement for Ochocinco in Cincy.

[Philosophers]

Now NYSPORTS, imagine him saying that a while back and now having say $50 million in guaranteed money sitting in his account.  After that, he may think he needs a show on the E Channel.  You've got to find the guys who don't lose themselves when they either find money or success.  Not sure how you analyze for that, but it is key.

[Jaime]

Caught Gruden's show "They Fire Football Coaches Ass". He had on Jake Locker & Andy Dalton. I luv Gruden & would consider him a strong candidate to replace TC. Dalton & Locker r both sharp Prospects. Luv that jargin they throw around with such ease.
Really got a lesson on how to brake down QB tape. The reads, do's & don'ts, the execution that goes into a Play. Both QB's were terrific students for Chuckie to work with.
He worked them out a bit with a simple drill that showed what a QB has to do with ease. Huge emphasis on dropping back from being under Center. A bit of a lost art in College today that has to be flawless @ the next level.