NFT: Who do you believe was the Greatest US President?

[vette5573]

I think this topic met the mods hidden agenda- can a high road great president discussion ultimately take the low road of partisan politics. Well done.

Where's the low road?

All I've seen is lively but largely polite discussion.  Opinions are shared and facts are supplied. 

I agree with LENN... A+++++

I don't know if we've hit the low road Jimbo but we have gone off topic and partisan and biased opinions have emerged.  Mine for example: my opinion is that Reagan is one of the worst presidents ever.  I know that he is reveared as a great president and I knew that my negative comment would stir up someone or another and you managed to get stirred up.  AND you mistakenly identified Obama as my guy.  A lot of mention about Obama in a thread about greatest president.  How can we include him in this topic?  He's not great by any standard and he's not finished.

The Obama discussion takes us down the low road. 

You made your point regarding the topic on the 1st page Lincoln= greatest, Reagan= favorite   Fine!

Great President?  Just Google the two words and you come up with Lincoln and FDR at the top of most lists.  But Ed asks why.

In reading the comments here it seems that success in warfare is a basis for greatness.  I believe that with the exception of Washington, Jefferson, Madison and FDR, the basis is a false one, does not apply and eliminates them from greatness but Presidents use war and military incursions as a form of foreign policy.  If they are successful, they are also successful at the polls as well.  As a Vietnam war vet I am cynical but this is a tried and true method of getting reelected.

Another reason from commenters as a basis for greatness centers around the written statements that were so inspirational like Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.  "All men are created equal"  well, in Jefferson's case, not black or red men not women, not men without property.  I'm an egalitarian.   That equal stuff is really important to me.  I like the guy but he was a classist and a hypocrite.  Not great.  Madison, Now there was a possible candidate for great President- well he was a slave owner.  Adams was great  Well He actually sold out the french after they assisted us during the revolutionary war. 

The abuse of minorities is one of my measures for declaring a president as not great.  Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, women, Japanese and so on.  Most presidents don't do well here.

Administration!  That's what Presidents are supposed to do.  Yeah!  If a president is a good administrator, runs the operation of government well, mans the cabinet well, appoints unbiased, nonpolitical judges to the high courts, works well with Congress and the Senate, well that's the primary function of a president.  If he does that well, he (or she) belongs on the list of great presidents.  In my life, Clinton and Eisenhower come to mind.  In essence, both were moderate Republicans to me.  Yeah I know, Bill Clinton was a Dem.  I say that if it walks like a duck

[weeze]

gee, maybe eds will return now! oh goody!

[king of the bronx]

Jimbo if you think I fell on my head, please do the research on Ronny RAY GUN I lived under this man as governor of California and president of our republic, I know what I have witnessed over that period of time. I challenge you to do some in depth research of this man, and I do not mean the ten o clock news, or the rest of the corporate media, I mean something a lot more accurate and I think your eyes may be opened to things you just did not know. So sorry if I said things you do not agree with, however I am not in the habit of following the company line in the name of Patriotism, moreover I want to be in line with the TRUTH. Murder I applaud you for your historical insight, I have always loved history and decided to major in it in college and I continue to study as much as I can.  /??? /??? /??? 

[JimboWHO]

I think this topic met the mods hidden agenda- can a high road great president discussion ultimately take the low road of partisan politics. Well done.

Where's the low road?

All I've seen is lively but largely polite discussion.  Opinions are shared and facts are supplied. 

I agree with LENN... A+++++

I don't know if we've hit the low road Jimbo but we have gone off topic and partisan and biased opinions have emerged.  Mine for example: my opinion is that Reagan is one of the worst presidents ever.  I know that he is reveared as a great president and I knew that my negative comment would stir up someone or another and you managed to get stirred up.  AND you mistakenly identified Obama as my guy.  A lot of mention about Obama in a thread about greatest president.  How can we include him in this topic?  He's not great by any standard and he's not finished.

The Obama discussion takes us down the low road. 

You made your point regarding the topic on the 1st page Lincoln= greatest, Reagan= favorite   Fine!

Great President?  Just Google the two words and you come up with Lincoln and FDR at the top of most lists.  But Ed asks why.

In reading the comments here it seems that success in warfare is a basis for greatness.  I believe that with the exception of Washington, Jefferson, Madison and FDR, the basis is a false one, does not apply and eliminates them from greatness but Presidents use war and military incursions as a form of foreign policy.  If they are successful, they are also successful at the polls as well.  As a Vietnam war vet I am cynical but this is a tried and true method of getting reelected.

Another reason from commenters as a basis for greatness centers around the written statements that were so inspirational like Jefferson's Declaration of Independence.  "All men are created equal"  well, in Jefferson's case, not black or red men not women, not men without property.  I'm an egalitarian.   That equal stuff is really important to me.  I like the guy but he was a classist and a hypocrite.  Not great.  Madison, Now there was a possible candidate for great President- well he was a slave owner.  Adams was great  Well He actually sold out the french after they assisted us during the revolutionary war. 

The abuse of minorities is one of my measures for declaring a president as not great.  Blacks, Hispanics, Indians, women, Japanese and so on.  Most presidents don't do well here.

Administration!  That's what Presidents are supposed to do.  Yeah!  If a president is a good administrator, runs the operation of government well, mans the cabinet well, appoints unbiased, nonpolitical judges to the high courts, works well with Congress and the Senate, well that's the primary function of a president.  If he does that well, he (or she) belongs on the list of great presidents.  In my life, Clinton and Eisenhower come to mind.  In essence, both were moderate Republicans to me.  Yeah I know, Bill Clinton was a Dem.  I say that if it walks like a duck

[king of the bronx]

Jimbo there is plenty of documentation of his Racist attitude just as much as Nixon's Anti Semitic attitude both of these men were extremely Racist. As far as his Fascist leaning, Mousollini  the man who invented the philosophy was asked what it was, replied it is corporatism,a melding of corporations and the nation state, in order for them to take over the positions of control. Reagan, Bush, The Dullas's and many other leaders of our republic fall into this category, George Bush's grand father was busted under the Trading With The Enemy Statue, he was the banker of Nazi money during the war. Listen my good man I am not making this up just read about it yourself, and while you are at it read the works of one of the greatest american patriots Smedley Butler.     

[vette5573]

Ok, let's introduce sarcasm and humor in it's basic unappreciated form into the equation.

[king of the bronx]

Jimbo did you know Alexander Hamilton's mother was an OCTOROON which is someone that is of African ancestry she is from the same island that my grand parents are from St Croix the former Danish West Indies he has a similar ethnic background as I do, one of mixed ancestry, my great grandfather was a Portuguese Jew. By todays standard that would make a BLACK MAN. HOLY SMOKE     

[JimboWHO]

Jimbo if you think I fell on my head, please do the research on Ronny RAY GUN I lived under this man as governor of California and president of our republic, I know what I have witnessed over that period of time. I challenge you to do some in depth research of this man, and I do not mean the ten o clock news, or the rest of the corporate media, I mean something a lot more accurate and I think your eyes may be opened to things you just did not know. So sorry if I said things you do not agree with, however I am not in the habit of following the company line in the name of Patriotism, moreover I want to be in line with the TRUTH. Murder I applaud you for your historical insight, I have always loved history and decided to major in it in college and I continue to study as much as I can.  /??? /??? /???

I'll pass KING.   It occurred to me sometime ago that it's fruitless to be drawn into a debate on Reagan with those who feel the need to spell his name in the way you and others like you do.  You've been debating people like me on Reagan for years and you think you've won those debates.  I wanna help you keep your streak intact.   Moreover, your posts - your original on the previous page and subsequent ones - are the product of a very special mind and I firmly believe your written words here reveal much more about you than the 'education' you feel you've provided to me on Reagan.

It's always a surprise to people like you to learn that there are those like me who've read a great deal about Reagan.  We even lived (and prospered!) through his presidency.  I'll have to let you down easy and gently suggest there is precious little I can learn from the likes of you about Reagan.  I even realize that he's as imperfect as you are.

I'll just leave you alone, alone with all those intense thoughts you have about this man.   You can use the time that would otherwise be devoted to debating me to trying to understand how the people of California and then the entire U.S. (93 states in two elections) got it so wrong when you got it so right.

JJM

[Chris]

And there it is.

Can a lockdown be far behind?

It's probably not a bad idea.

I even quoted myself in this thread.. That's a first.

A lockout would probably be a good idea. Sooner rather than later.

[king of the bronx]

Jimbo if you think I fell on my head, please do the research on Ronny RAY GUN I lived under this man as governor of California and president of our republic, I know what I have witnessed over that period of time. I challenge you to do some in depth research of this man, and I do not mean the ten o clock news, or the rest of the corporate media, I mean something a lot more accurate and I think your eyes may be opened to things you just did not know. So sorry if I said things you do not agree with, however I am not in the habit of following the company line in the name of Patriotism, moreover I want to be in line with the TRUTH. Murder I applaud you for your historical insight, I have always loved history and decided to major in it in college and I continue to study as much as I can.  /??? /??? /???

I'll pass KING.   It occurred to me sometime ago that it's fruitless to be drawn into a debate on Reagan with those who feel the need to spell his name in the way you and others like you do.  You've been debating people like me on Reagan for years and you think you've won those debates.  I wanna help you keep your streak intact.   Moreover, your posts - your original on the previous page and subsequent ones - are the product of a very special mind and I firmly believe your written words here reveal much more about you than the 'education' you feel you've provided to me on Reagan.

It's always a surprise to people like you to learn that there are those like me who've read a great deal about Reagan.  We even lived (and prospered!) through his presidency.  I'll have to let you down easy and gently suggest there is precious little I can learn from the likes of you about Reagan.  I even realize that he's as imperfect as you are.

I'll just leave you alone, alone with all those intense thoughts you have about this man.   You can use the time that would otherwise be devoted to debating me to trying to understand how the people of California and then the entire U.S. (93 states in two elections) got it so wrong when you got it so right.

JJM                         


       People like me, I do not represent any people I speak my mind based on my own thoughts and observations, and nothing more. I do not claim any particular school of thought vis a vis Liberalism, or Conservatism, however I totally agree with you, lets just let this rest, after this is a sports web. Good day sir.   

[jimv]

OK, guys, it IS starting to get a little personal here.  Let's just try to simmer down a little.

king, I was just wondering if you remember from your history that JFK's father earned most of his money from illegal bootlegging and that he was essentially pro-German prior to the World War II?  But, is that of any importance?  JFK was an OK president as some people have stated.  And, the way you present your arguments as if everything you say is FACT, you tend to antagonize people like JIMBO who are on the other side of the philosophical coin.

JIMBO, I think you tend to react too quickly to anything adverse said about people you admire.  And, you jump in quickly with more loose statements.   Let everything sink in for awhile.

OK?  Just some advice from a fellow Giant fan.

[murderhill]

And there it is.

Can a lockdown be far behind?

It's probably not a bad idea.

I even quoted myself in this thread.. That's a first.

A lockout would probably be a good idea. Sooner rather than later.

Is this the internet blogging version of narcissistic personality disorder?

[JimboWHO]

Jimbo if you think I fell on my head, please do the research on Ronny RAY GUN I lived under this man as governor of California and president of our republic, I know what I have witnessed over that period of time. I challenge you to do some in depth research of this man, and I do not mean the ten o clock news, or the rest of the corporate media, I mean something a lot more accurate and I think your eyes may be opened to things you just did not know. So sorry if I said things you do not agree with, however I am not in the habit of following the company line in the name of Patriotism, moreover I want to be in line with the TRUTH. Murder I applaud you for your historical insight, I have always loved history and decided to major in it in college and I continue to study as much as I can.  /??? /??? /???

I'll pass KING.   It occurred to me sometime ago that it's fruitless to be drawn into a debate on Reagan with those who feel the need to spell his name in the way you and others like you do.  You've been debating people like me on Reagan for years and you think you've won those debates.  I wanna help you keep your streak intact.   Moreover, your posts - your original on the previous page and subsequent ones - are the product of a very special mind and I firmly believe your written words here reveal much more about you than the 'education' you feel you've provided to me on Reagan.

It's always a surprise to people like you to learn that there are those like me who've read a great deal about Reagan.  We even lived (and prospered!) through his presidency.  I'll have to let you down easy and gently suggest there is precious little I can learn from the likes of you about Reagan.  I even realize that he's as imperfect as you are.

I'll just leave you alone, alone with all those intense thoughts you have about this man.   You can use the time that would otherwise be devoted to debating me to trying to understand how the people of California and then the entire U.S. (93 states in two elections) got it so wrong when you got it so right.

JJM                         


       People like me, I do not represent any people I speak my mind based on my own thoughts and observations, and nothing more. I do not claim any particular school of thought vis a vis Liberalism, or Conservatism, however I totally agree with you, lets just let this rest, after this is a sports web. Good day sir.   

Fair enough - good day.

[Chris]

Is this the internet blogging version of narcissistic personality disorder?

Murder, since I probably suffer from it in real life, you're probably right!

[joeynygiants]

what is strange I feel I the only one who like wilson as a president.

the man has vision in his league of nations, and he lead our nation to end the 1st world war.