Trying to Balance 1 - Climate change real but not an emergency

[Jolly Blue Giant]

JBG,

It really appears by your posts that you think the right is the closest thing to perfect you will see on this planet and you believe liberal Americans are the closest thing to pure evil you will see on this planet.   It's also clear that you despise our government despite the fact that it is of the people, for the people, and by the people.

I don't think that republicans are always right, and in fact despise plenty of them. I'm a libertarian at heart, but hate labels so I end up just being independent. Voted for Gary Johnson twice. The thing that killed him was his stance that marijuana should be legalized and took a hard stance against the military budget. Anyway, he wasn't perfect, but he thought along my way of thinking...except cutting the military budget as I believe in having the strongest force in the world as a deterrence to war. Lotta crazies in this world and if they think you're weak, they'll test you.

I believe what RR said about Democrats is spot on, "it's not that Democrats aren't smart, it's just that they know so much that isn't true"...LOL
I don't hate Dems - hell, half my family are Dems including my son who was a combat medic in Iran. We get along fine and actually agree on a lot of things, but tend to shy away from discussions where we disagree. He's young and very smart (recent grad from U.of Wisconsin), so I know he'll come around.

When I see views like yours I can't help but think of the words of Abraham Lincoln

I'm glad that you think of Abraham Lincoln when reading my views. I consider that a compliment. A lot of people don't realize that he was far more lacking in gravitas or political decorum than Trump. Like telling a woman who yelled at him for reducing government employees to balance the budget and saying, "sorry, but there's not enough tits on the hog to feed all the piglets". Abe could be crude, both in word and in statesmanship and his great Gettysburg Address speech was not indicative of the way he talked all the time.

Anyway, I don't hate liberals. I don't understand them...well, except Bernie and AOC who aren't afraid to say what their party is really about. I know exactly what they want because they don't beat around the bush to deceive the less astute masses like the MSM

[MightyGiants]

I have a little thought exercise for you JBG.   I want you to list 3 positions you disagree with conservatives and 3 positions you agree with liberals.   As I am a man that would never ask anyone else to do what I myself wouldn't do


1) on a local issue I am against the liberals/democrats in my state that are banning all paper and plastic bags.   While I can accept the plastic bag argument I can't accept the banning of paper bags

2) I disagree with liberals who oppose all military activity against terrorists like drone strikes

3) I am in partial disagreement with liberals and Democrats allowing the complete inclusion of transgender females in sports.  I believe that equality must also include biological equality.  I think there should be standards in terms of how long an athlete has not had the what I consider a performance-enhancing drug- testosterone

1) I generally favor the tougher on crime approach of conservatives/Republicans

2) I generally favor the GOP/Right's view on a strong defense

3) Like Republicans I have a hard time seeing a reason to object to a Christmas tree on public property (with the provision that if another religion requests a similar display they be accommodated)


Now your turn JBG

[Jolly Blue Giant]

I'll get back to you. It will take me all night and probably tomorrow to come up with 3 things I agree on with liberals, LOL. Be patient, I will address. There is a little distraction going on right now called the NFL draft and it kind of owns my brain until Saturday night.

[MightyGiants]

I'll get back to you. It will take me all night and probably tomorrow to come up with 3 things I agree on with liberals, LOL. Be patient, I will address. There is a little distraction going on right now called the NFL draft and it kind of owns my brain until Saturday night.

I am going to share the story of what inspired this exercise.   I was reading an article once on how to communicate with zealots and extremists.  They had a handful of tips on how to try and bridge the divide and find common ground.  However, the article made clear there are no sure-fire tricks and sometimes you never will reach the other person.   Then came the Ah-ha! moment for me, they said if you fail you also need to entertain the very real possibility that it is you that is the zealot/extremist.    Needless to say that idea appealed to me on many levels in terms of critical thinking and trying to be careful in assumptions.   

That's when I devised this little exercise.   My feeling is depending on how broad the issue/topic one should be able to come up with a reasonable number of points you disagree with your "side" on and points you agree with the "other side".  With a topic as broad as an ideology/political party it seemed like being able to find 3 for each would be a good measure of one's extremism and potential zeolatry.   For me, it's a bit of a self-check.

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Sounds like a really good book Bob. The part ("society

[Bob In PA]

2071 what will they be dealing with in regards to pollution? mostly electric cars then surely so where will their big pollution issues come from?

Nap: What fuel will be used to make the electricity to charge all of those electric cars?  I don't see solar and wind as being sufficient... building nuclear plants (or something else) will be needed.  Bob

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Nap: What fuel will be used to make the electricity to charge all of those electric cars?  I don't see solar and wind as being sufficient... building nuclear plants (or something else) will be needed.  Bob

Bob - that's why I say its fascinating.  people = pollution and more people (since the population is not shrinking at this point) = more pollution.  its possible the way the future deals with power sources is unknown, yet to be discovered.  or current sources will be refined and used more efficiently.

who would have thought leaded gas in 1971 would have disappeared by roughly 1990? yes unleaded was around at that time but if I recall correctly, engines then were built for leaded gas and performed the absolute best when leaded was used.   My Dad's 1970 Olds comes to mind. whenever he put unleaded in the thing it coughed and sputtered. 

[MightyGiants]

Bob - that's why I say its fascinating.  people = pollution and more people (since the population is not shrinking at this point) = more pollution.  its possible the way the future deals with power sources is unknown, yet to be discovered.  or current sources will be refined and used more efficiently.

who would have thought leaded gas in 1971 would have disappeared by roughly 1990? yes unleaded was around at that time but if I recall correctly, engines then were built for leaded gas and performed the absolute best when leaded was used.   My Dad's 1970 Olds comes to mind. whenever he put unleaded in the thing it coughed and sputtered.

Our IQs Are Six Points Higher Since We Stopped Putting Lead In Gas

https://jalopnik.com/our-iqs-are-six-points-higher-since-we-stopped-putting-5968523

[Bob In PA]

Our IQs Are Six Points Higher Since We Stopped Putting Lead In Gas

https://jalopnik.com/our-iqs-are-six-points-higher-since-we-stopped-putting-5968523

Rich: First, are you sure it wasn't because we took the lead out of PAINT? 

Toddlers interacting with paint seems the more likely explanation for that (but I don't know for sure).

Second, the issue of climate change has more to do with carbon dioxide than lead, so your remark is at least a partly a non sequitur.

Bob

[MightyGiants]

Rich: First, are you sure it wasn't because we took the lead out of PAINT? 

Toddlers interacting with paint seems the more likely explanation for that (but I don't know for sure).

Second, the issue of climate change has more to do with carbon dioxide than lead, so your remark is at least a partly a non sequitur.

Bob

Bob,

Lead paint is still an issue.  There are still many older homes and apartments with lead paint.  I have had meeting about childhood lead.  An oldtime health officer who is really into the issue of lead, would often opine about how the lead in gas made him and his generation less intelligent. 

Yes, lead doesn't have anything to do with Climate change, but since it was mentioned, I thought I would share what I knew about the whole led thing.   

[Bob In PA]

Bob,

Led paint is still an issue.  There are still many older homes and apartments with lead paint.  I have had meeting about childhood lead.  An oldtime health officer who is really into the issue of lead, would often opine about how the lead in gas made him and his generation less intelligent. 

Yes, lead doesn't have anything to do with Climate change, but since it was mentioned, I thought I would share what I knew about the whole led thing.   

Rich: Here is a report from the Rhodium Group (whoever they are) correctly stating that China emits more greenhouse gases than the rest of the developed world combined (and has done so since 2019).

I would think a major step in the process of "cleaning up" the world would be to go after them

That does not excuse us from doing what we can (and can afford, but IMO the focus should be on China (India is not exactly helping much either, and their huge population breathes a lot more crap than ours does).

Bob

https://rhg.com/research/chinas-emissions-surpass-developed-countries/

[MightyGiants]

Rich: Here is a report from the Rhodium Group (whoever they are) correctly stating that China emits more greenhouse gases than the rest of the developed world combined (and has done so since 2019).

I would think a major step in the process of "cleaning up" the world would be to go after them

That does not excuse us from doing what we can (and can afford, but IMO the focus should be on China (India is not exactly helping much either, and their huge population breathes a lot more crap than ours does).

Bob

https://rhg.com/research/chinas-emissions-surpass-developed-countries/

Your comments remind me of when I was young, smart, but obviously less wise.   When I worked at the hospital, I was always on the safety committee.    We had this young hotshot VP who was bragging about how our employee incidents have just dropped 10%.   I started laughing.  When he asked what was so funny, I pointed out that the 10% reduction exactly matched the 10% layoff that was during the same time period.  See the problem was the committee worked with the flawed view of total employee incidents rather than incident per employee or better yet incident per FTE (or equivalent).  Needless to say, he didn't find my point nearly as amusing as I did.   

When you adjust on a per capita basis China drops from number 1 to number 13

https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emissions


I suspect you will find this mistake as amusing as the former VP did.   By the way, I never did like that guy.  He just oozed insincerity.   He eventually betrayed the hospital (after being promoted to acting President) I was working for, went on to be the president of a bigger hospital, and then drugs, alcohol and his hard-partying life style caught up with him and he got fired and then he died some years back (he was my age)

[Bob In PA]

When you adjust on a per capita basis China drops from number 1 to number 13

Rich: Quantity matters more to the atmosphere than statistical analysis of where it comes from.  If there's anything to be truly alarmed about on this topic, consider this:

Continued development of high population countries (China & India) represents a proportionately greater danger to the planet and will result in proportionately greater increases in the total amount of pollution

Per capita is important. The implication (likely correct) is... we can do more about ours than they can (doesn't sound right, but I think it's true). And IMO we should always do as much as we are able (and can afford).

Bob

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Our IQs Are Six Points Higher Since We Stopped Putting Lead In Gas

https://jalopnik.com/our-iqs-are-six-points-higher-since-we-stopped-putting-5968523

no wonder i am so stupid

[NapoleonBlownapart]

Rich: First, are you sure it wasn't because we took the lead out of PAINT? 

Toddlers interacting with paint seems the more likely explanation for that (but I don't know for sure).

Second, the issue of climate change has more to do with carbon dioxide than lead, so your remark is at least a partly a non sequitur.

Bob

no wonder I am stupider than stupid